COVID why do suffers have such different outcomes

Is there a case for making the vaccination mandatory I wonder?
If too many ethnic minorities refuse the vaccine, then we could be in trouble.

In general I hate the idea of too much State intervention in our lives but maybe now is the time to keep a close eye on the update amongst those groups which refuse.

That should have said uptake not update!

Both DrJohn and David Davis are adamant that VitD deficiency is a reason why BAME groups suffer disproportionately. In African countries they will have greater exposure to the sun. In this country won’t stop them catching covid but it can greatly reduce how ill they get. Davis has been banging on about it in parliament for months. MP’s are taking it: he says all the doctors he knows take it. The amount given to people in care homes is far too low. And yet still no trials have been done in this country (I think there might be one now though ). In other countries huge doses of VitD given in hospital reduce the death rate dramatically. He does have a scientific background and talks ar great length about it in DrJohns blog.

Yes, I’ve wondered about the importance of Vitamin D given that countries nearer the equator seem to be suffering fewer deaths.

I’m not sure where the figure of 72% of the BAME community rejecting the vaccine came from. This is one instance when that overarching BAME classification doesn’t really work. Different communities have different views.

A recent Public Health survey found that only around 50% of those of the Southern Asian communities would take the vaccine. There’s been a lot of fake news about animal products/alcohol in the vaccine and there’s been a big push by community leaders to reassure people, but we all know how fake news takes a hold?

Regarding lower rates in African countries, there are two reasons I can think of. One is that many of them don’t have access to testing so they don’t know whether people have CV or not. Another is the age of populations.

In Nigeria, half of the population is under 19 years of age. They’re not the category that dies of CV. Also Nigerian life expectancy is less than fifty five years so they simply don’t have a population of older people who are vulnerable to dying of CV.

I hadn't thought of that.

The problem with VitD supplementation is that, no matter how many arguements are put forward for it’s efficacy (much of which is scientifically based) everyone still tries to find reasons why there are other factors at play. It’s cheap and it’s safe and it might just help. I’m not one for conspiracy theories, especially regarding the pandemic, but there’s no money to be made out of VitD.

Don't you think there are other factors? Vit D might help, but I honestly don't think it's the whole answer.

That makes sense SueDonim. A lot of different factors to take into account isn’t there?

growstuff

Don't you think there are other factors? Vit D might help, but I honestly don't think it's the whole answer.

Nothing will be the whole answer because it’s such a complex virus. But it may well be part of the solution and it’s being largely ignored because it’s so simple. Davis reckons there is actually a Vit D deficiency pandemic. The fact is that it isn’t a vitamin but a hormone and almost every part of the body needs it to function properly. It’s worth listening to Davis speaking about it on DrJohns blog.

I have brittle asthma, bronchiectasis and RA, an autoimmune disease and am in the extremely critically category.
There has been research recently to say that there appears to be evidence of a strong connection between these conditions.

growstuff

Urmstongran

An over active immune system for one. Our daughter had (has) long Covid. Doctor told her this. She’s back at work now full time as a teacher since the NY and has just text ‘tired mum, which is to be expected but bit anxious again as chest ache back. Going to bed before 9pm’.

I hope she's had full blood tests to check that all her organs are functioning properly. If not, she should ask for them. Liver, heart and kidney damage can all cause fatigue and are manageable if diagnosed early enough.

Yes she did thank you growstuff just before Christmas. She went for a slow 5 minute walk. Doctor also did ECG, oxygen salts and arranged a chest x-ray. All normal thankfully ‘no clots on your lungs’ - hugely reassured her.

I think a lot of the anxiety comes because it is a new virus and the scientists are learning about it as we go along. But if you’ve got long Covid your worry can ratchet up quite easily - it’s the ‘what ifs’.

*sats

I’m also sure that a vitamin D deficiency is not the whole answer but upping our intake is a simple thing that everyone can do which may well tip the odds more in our favour.

Losing weight if necessary is another is another simple thing to do.

growstuff
Thank you for telling me about the asthma being a major factor in Covid patients. The funny thing is that if you read a list of conditions that seem to cause worse disease, asthma often isn’t there, or only severe asthma is mentioned. I don’t have severe asthma, I’d probably call it moderate, but prior to getting Covid, I’d never been hospitalised with bad asthma symptoms. My daughter said all along that I was very vulnerable because of the asthma, but I never received ‘the letter.’

My dr in the hospital said Covid ‘ravishes’ your internal tissues, and that in order to build up and repair your internal organs, you should eat a lot of protein. I also had a hospital acquired infection, but now that’s been treated and I’m recovering I’m trying to include plenty of protein in my diet.

Re the vitamin D, I was already taking a vitamin D supplement before I went into hospital and I’ve resumed it again now. It’s important to take a vitamin K supplement alongside vitamin D as vitamin D can calcify in the veins/arteries and vitamin K prevents this and the vitamin D will work better.
Vitamin D clearly doesn’t prevent hospitalisation though. Nor severe disease, otherwise I wouldn’t have been so ill. That doesn’t mean that it’s not good to take it, it just means don’t expect miracles. The medics treat severe disease with a massive range of drugs and treatments, the main one being oxygen. But I was on about eight different drugs/treatments and it may be that some medics use vitamin D.

How are you feeling now maddyone?

David Davis says that people need to take 4000iu each day but that he takes 6000iu.

Apart from the vitamin D, obesity etc, factors, it’s surely got to be down to genes?

Yes, and I don’t understand, for example a family of four living together 3 adults and a teenager , only one that got it, and the others didn’t,

Sparklefizz
Thank you for asking. I’m gradually getting a little better each day. Having been discharged from hospital I found I had a hospital acquired infection which set me back considerably. I’ve needed further support and medications to deal with that but thankfully now on the mend. It’s been an experience I would rather have missed but thanks to our wonderful NHS I’m here to tell the tale.

Witzend

Apart from the vitamin D, obesity etc, factors, it’s surely got to be down to genes?

It's also to do with T cells and ACE2 receptors, which can vary from one person to another.

It’s important to take a vitamin K supplement alongside vitamin D as vitamin D can calcify in the veins/arteries and vitamin K prevents this and the vitamin D will work better
Just worth mentioning, but anybody on Warfarin should know this anyway- Vit K changes how your Warfarin works, it lowers your INR values, ie speeding up blood clotting time. A low INR means that Warfarin will not work well enough to prevent a dangerous blood clot.
Just be aware.

maddyone

growstuff
Thank you for telling me about the asthma being a major factor in Covid patients. The funny thing is that if you read a list of conditions that seem to cause worse disease, asthma often isn’t there, or only severe asthma is mentioned. I don’t have severe asthma, I’d probably call it moderate, but prior to getting Covid, I’d never been hospitalised with bad asthma symptoms. My daughter said all along that I was very vulnerable because of the asthma, but I never received ‘the letter.’

My dr in the hospital said Covid ‘ravishes’ your internal tissues, and that in order to build up and repair your internal organs, you should eat a lot of protein. I also had a hospital acquired infection, but now that’s been treated and I’m recovering I’m trying to include plenty of protein in my diet.

You wouldn't have received any letter. I'm diabetic and have had a heart attack, but I didn't receive any letter and was never officially "shielded".

Only people with the following conditions are considered clinically extremely vulnerable:

- solid organ transplant recipients
- people with specific cancers:
- people with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy
- people with lung cancer who are undergoing radical radiotherapy
- people with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma who are at any stage of treatment
- people having immunotherapy or other continuing antibody treatments for cancer
- people having other targeted cancer treatments that can affect the immune system, such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors
- people who have had bone marrow or stem cell transplants in the last 6 months or who are still taking immunosuppression drugs
- people with severe respiratory conditions including all cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)
- people with rare diseases that significantly increase the risk of infections (such as severe combined immunodeficiency (SCID), homozygous sickle cell disease)
- people on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection
- problems with your spleen, for example splenectomy (having your spleen removed)
- adults with Down’s syndrome
- adults on dialysis or with chronic kidney disease (stage 5)
- women who are pregnant with significant heart disease, congenital or acquired
- other people who have also been classed as clinically extremely vulnerable, based on clinical judgement and an assessment of their needs.

A second group includes those with moderate asthma and diabetes, who are considered high risk, but they were never given any support.

If you add together the people in both groups, there are millions, which is one of the reasons it's nonsense to claim that the vulnerable and those at high risk can be protected, while infection is allowed to run its course amongst everybody else. They cannot be totally isolated, so transmission rates need to come down in the whole population.

Mawbe
Thank you for the clarification about vitamins D and K and Warfarin. I’m not on Warfarin so I didn’t know that. I guess I should have said it’s a general recommendation that vitamins D and K are taken together, but everyone on medication should check with their GP. Anyway, very useful advice Maw.

growstuff
Also thank you for the list, I think I’ve seen it before. My point was that many of us who were likely to suffer serious disease were not notified by letter, no doubt because there would be so many of us, but the level of my disease was extremely serious, my oxygen saturation level was 83 when I was taken to hospital, and that level is considered life threatening without intervention.
My daughter had said from the beginning that I was likely to suffer severe disease if I contracted Covid. She was not wrong. The same applies to you growstuff and to many Gransnetters to whom I can only hope that you do not contact Covid. It’s not a pleasant experience.

Stay safe everyone.