Second vaccine dose timing

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I actually know a nurse who was on the trials and now found out she had 2 doses of the Oxford vaccine 3 weeks apart. She still caught Covid and was very poorly several months later.
It's not a wonder vaccine and doesn't work for everyone

I have seen scientists explain that it is ok to wait 12 weeks and that giving more people the vaccination is more important. One explained it like building a house. The first dose gives you somewhere to live and the second the final tidying up and decorating. You are fine with the first dose...be thankful that you have had it. You will get the top up in time.

Alegrias1, I read your posts about this with interest and am grateful for your input. I am the first person to complain about the press speculation which puts such fear into the community. I also think that the Government won't want to shoot themselves in the foot by giving a single dose of vaccine and missing the opportunity to pull in popularity which translate into votes. However, it is worrying that we have been urged to read the manufacturer's instructions about medication but are now being told to ignore them, no matter what the scientists say.
I am a person who goes blank at scientific stuff; I spent a fair few years as a student replicating experiments which were supposed to prove things but they never did. It tends to make me skeptical although I accept that I might not have been the most careful "scientist".
MissAdventure, far nicer to get someone to rub some cream in.

I get a lot of stick on here because I come on and say I’m a scientist and for some reason that upsets people. Then I see a ridiculous post like Mooney59 ’s that demonstrates just how little some people know about science and scientists. So many people who have no understanding of the scientific concept of risk.

I feel a bit sorry for the MHRA, JCVI and Messrs Whitty et al, because they may actually change the dosing regime in the future. They may look at new evidence that comes in and say “actually, we’d recommend something else”. Then the baying hordes will accuse them of U-turns and cheating the public and god knows what else. When what they have actually done is tried the best they could to save as many lives as they possibly can.

I blame the press, actually. So many misleading reports in the last few days - diverted vaccines from Yorkshire, deaths in Norway, Israel’s results – all of which are misrepresented, and sometimes actually just made up.

Thank you to everybody who has sent me good wishes, I do appreciate it

Interesting, RoMo. How far apart were your vaccine doses?

Speaking here from Israel I would say that a sample of over 200,00 people vaccinated as against the 36,000+ from Pfizer's sampling would be a pretty good indication that the second dose, as it was designed by SCIENTISTS, is the accepted dosage. Thankfully I've had both dosages, as will everyone else here. It's not margarine and it shouldn't be spread as if it were. The U.K. scientists appear to be making decisions on the hoof.

Alegrias1

None of that was rude NotSpaghetti, it is all factual and I know I was shouting, but really. Day after day, unfounded and ill informed comments about non existent "manufacturers' instructions" from people who have no idea how the approvals process works. Laying the blame at the feet of the government when its the recommendation of the scientists as a way of getting us out of this situation as quickly as possible.

I think its wicked and self serving to keep bringing up these ill founded concerns based on half-truths we read in the press, and it could dissuade people with sincere vaccine hesitancy from taking the vaccine, then what kind of mess will we be in?

There have been many posts here with evidence about how the extended dose is the right approach, but all we get is "Well Pfizer didn't support it". Why is no-one pointing out that Pfizer said they have 52% effectiveness but Israel are only seeing 33%? (Becuase their trial base is older probably, if you are interested) The manufacturer's comments are only valid when people think they support their own world view.

And Daisymae - have you got any examples of the Horror that these scientists are showing? Because I have plenty of examples of scientists saying its the right thing to do in our circumstances.

Well said Alegrias

Alegrias1 - a voice of reason. You are not alone, but most of us don't have the information to back up anything we write, but I don't remember seeing anywhere that the vaccine was going to completely prevent people getting the virus. I saw somewhere where a woman wrote that she was longing to go out and hug her family two weeks after her first dose! Don't know where she got that from! Anyway thank you for your factual and reasoned posts!

As someone else has mentioned up-thread, I don't think Joan Bakewell can be relied on any more. She did indeed go away for the weekend and leave her car engine running.

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/joan-bakerwell-fined-police-car-running-a4467116.html

Coco51

Yesterday there was an admission that the first Pfizer vaccination may only provide 33% protection, rather than 89% claimed, and there has been no research to show the effect of a longer delay between first and second vaccinations.
It seems to me a half-cocked idea that will result in wider infection rates and longer lockdown. Might such low immunity might also trigger more mutations

But I haven't read anywhere that vaccines (even if they're 100% efficacious) will result in lower infection rates. It worries me that there's so much attention paid to vaccines, when what will really bring infection rates down is an efficient test and trace system and forcing (encouraging nicely?) people to self-isolate. The best that can really be hoped for is that fewer people are hospitalised and the NHS can get back to treating people as usual. The most vulnerable can have some confidence they'll probably be less affected, although they'll still have the same risk of infection, but there will still be people in low risk groups who are infected and will develop long Covid, hopefully in isolated outbreaks, which could be controlled.

Alegrias1 I thanked you yesterday and I am thanking you again today for all the information you give .... but also for your incredible patience.

Thanks.

I am a great admirer of Joan Bakewell but in this case she is wrong, wrong wrong. How selfish to deprive someone of what may be partial protection at the expense of giving fewer people full protection.

The point is Alegrias1 that all the tests, research and projections were based on the two dose time frame. Unless you can point to clinically trialled evidence to demonstrate otherwise

Yesterday there was an admission that the first Pfizer vaccination may only provide 33% protection, rather than 89% claimed, and there has been no research to show the effect of a longer delay between first and second vaccinations.
It seems to me a half-cocked idea that will result in wider infection rates and longer lockdown. Might such low immunity might also trigger more mutations

Thank you for your reasoned responses Alegrias1. Appreciate your replies to the posts.

If you get 10 scientists in a room you get 10 opinions. The job of a scientist is to say/find something nobody else has. Ergo they just spout stuff. They may believe it but in their "industry" nobody is publishing a paper on blandness they want shock horror and controversy.
Government scientists aren't immune either as they want to progress in their industry.
Having said the above we have very little option but to adhere to their advice even tho we know that advice will change next week. Eggs/apples/masks anyone?

It's never been claimed that vaccination would stop people from being infected, whatever the timing. The test will be in how badly these people are affected
Thank you for a timely reminder Alegrias also janeainsworth upthread - too many people, here, in the media and “outside” are treating the vaccine like our Get Out Of Jail Free card , I have read of those who are now “waiting for the immunity to kick in” and wondered if I was the only person to think that this is not the point.
We will still have to Hands, Face, Space etc for a long time and to my unscientific mind, the vaccination programme in Israel is too recent to draw significant conclusions.

I think the real message has to be to have vaccine 1 and be careful, have vaccine 2 and still be careful. No matter how long the gap is between jabs I will still adhere to hands, face, space for many months to come.

Indeed nothing more to be said. I trust the medical establishment to do what is right for public health. I also expect medics and scientists who disagree with the decision to make their concerns known to the MHRA etc. I don't agree with using every little piece of news in a way that casts doubt on this massive undertaking, and I don't agree with frightening people into thinking that the government have made a decision about medical matters just to improve their image, and that's what's happening.

First dose next week, second booked for April. Suits us not getting stressed by all this discussion, they know if it was not safe they would be in dire trouble.
Far worse in other countries.

You’ve made up your mind that you know which I maintain you don’t! There’s nothing more to be said.

I always check for sources...

The UK scientists question Covid19 dosing vaccine delay. There were 5 of them. The same 5 as were posted above, interestingly.

The information can be ignored, but it doesn’t mean that anyone absolutely knows that changing the recommended timeline of vaccination is a positive thing. The point is that that no one knows. The information is only just emerging from Israel. However for the majority of people Israel is sticking to the recommended timeline.