Second vaccine dose timing

An opinion piece in the BMJ is calling for the government to revisit its strategy 'The current UK strategy with the Pfizer mRNA vaccine is, in our view, a non-randomised, uncontrolled population experimental study without pilot data.' People who understand the science are calling the strategy an experiment. blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-strategy-for-delaying-the-second-dose-of-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/

The Doctors Association have written a letter expressing real and grave concerns. The full text is available online.

There was a discussion on World at One today with a scientist from the JCVI and someone else.

Take home message
1) that the research done in Israel involved testing people only two weeks after they had had the first dose, so not enough time to fully develop antibodies. So a lower percentage immunity than if the tests had been carried out later.
2) There is evidence that the Astra-Zeneca vaccine gives even greater immunity when the two doses are given at longer intervals.

Daisymae

I listened to a scientist who made this point in discussion. Dr Fauci is on record as saying he's not in favour. Israeli doctors are saying that their research indicates a much lower rate of protection after one jab and people have tested positive after one. The world is watching while we make a massive drug trial using one dose. The problem is that we don't know how it's going to turn out. Our record in management of the pandemic speaks for itself.

Simple, don’t have when it’s offered to you if you feel so strongly. Let someone who does want have it instead.

Where are these scientists you are horrified and what makes them think that know any better than our scientist.

Thanks

What's TTS Atqui? (serious question)

Two not TTS

Why do we need TTS o threads about this?

None of the vaccines prevent Covid, irrespective of the dosing regime; they reduce the likelihood of serious illness if you get it.

The DM is not a reliable source of medical information. I went and had a look at the DM article online. There's the "manufacturer's instructions" comment again. There are lots of other inaccuracies there as well.

You'd almost think that the DM were trying to cause trouble, wouldn't you? Surely not!!

Quote from an article in the Mail today: 'The Doctors' Association UK said no studies had been done to prove a single dose of a vaccine, or two spaced very far apart, would reliably prevent cases of Covid.' This strategy is far from proven and very far from risk free.

I am sure I am not alone in having been asked to sign a legal document with the NHS when being prescribed medication not yet licensed for use in the U.K. for my requirements.
On two occasions I have had consultants explain in great detail the situation and possible risks before signing to say that I take full responsibility.
Is this being done with those currently taking part in the big experiment?
BoJos dad has had both jabs. So that’s alright then?

Not an experiment.

1957 was 64 years ago. Covid is not flu. Science has moved on.

MissA I hope your misgivings improve

GagaJo

I won't get the vaccine in the UK. I will get it in Switzerland where I am currently living. Therefore I won't need to worry about the timing of the 2nd dose.

People in my school are already being called for their vaccinations so I think it is safe to assume I will have the 1st dose within a month.

Switzerland was a bit slow starting vaccinations, but are doing really well now. All over 75s can now book their vaccine and will be done in a few weeks- then over 65s- with 2nd dose given on time.

I had my second Asian 'flu vaccine 3 weeks after the first one. This was common practice in 1957 in order to give a fuller protection of the virus----3 months is no good.

Perhaps scientists were more knowledgeable back then !?

Well, I have sore misgivings.
I should probably put some talc on 'em.

When I first heard about the plan it seemed like a good idea, but it's a major experiment. If it works great.

That's the point.
Some people (scientific people) believe that not to be the case.
There is a whole raft of what appear to be people you would expect to have valid opinions who have opposing beliefs.

That is my understanding too GG13.

I hope you get the gist of my post, multitasking and failing abysmally

As I understand the situation it can take up to 3 weeks for your immune system response after the first dose. In these circumstances it is highly likely that some people will test positive after receiving the vaccine, however I believe the symptoms of Covid are vastly reduced.

OK, now I'm speechless......

Throw grenade, get everyone worked up and worried, tell us it won't affect you anyway.....

Dr Fauci said that they know the optimal time for delivery of the second dose and they are sticking with that. Doesn't sound unreasonable.

I won't get the vaccine in the UK. I will get it in Switzerland where I am currently living. Therefore I won't need to worry about the timing of the 2nd dose.

People in my school are already being called for their vaccinations so I think it is safe to assume I will have the 1st dose within a month.

MissA, its not as clear cut as that unfortunately. I googled to find a scientist who disagreed with the lengthening of the gap; found one called Florian Krammer who put forward a realistic possibility that lengthening the gap could mean that people are susceptible to the virus for longer and that could mean that a new, dangerous strain could emerge. But in the same article (in Science) other scientists argued that while this was possible, the chances of that happening were very small in relation to the existing virus continuing to wipe out hundreds of people every day. So, on balance, the dose being delayed is a good thing. All the scientists are good scientists, but many non-scientific people only see the "mutant virus" part and that's enough to set them off on the "bad decision" route.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/01/could-too-much-time-between-doses-drive-coronavirus-outwit-vaccines

p.s. - see DaisyMae's comment above. Israeli Coronavirus Tsar says our approach is correct. Fauci's concern is that we don't have enough vaccine doses to get the second one to people after 12 weeks, not with the efficacy.

I listened to a scientist who made this point in discussion. Dr Fauci is on record as saying he's not in favour. Israeli doctors are saying that their research indicates a much lower rate of protection after one jab and people have tested positive after one. The world is watching while we make a massive drug trial using one dose. The problem is that we don't know how it's going to turn out. Our record in management of the pandemic speaks for itself.