Gransnet forums


Second vaccine dose timing

(343 Posts)
GagaJo Thu 21-Jan-21 07:05:13

Everything I have read in the media points to the 2nd dose needing to be within a certain time frame which the government are ignoring.

What is the REAL evidence of this reducing the efficacy of the vaccine?

And is there a petition to be signed about this, to force a debate in parliament?

MissAdventure Thu 21-Jan-21 16:22:50

Yep! Carry on camping. grin

janeainsworth Thu 21-Jan-21 16:25:57

Tim Harford on the pros and cons and the need for research as the vaccination programme is rolled out

MissAdventure Thu 21-Jan-21 16:36:16

That's all anyone is looking for; the need for research.

It's good to see that those in the know agree.

MawBe Thu 21-Jan-21 16:52:08

Tim Harford is good isn’t he?
His How To Vaccinate the World has been clear and informative, understandable by all without any dumbing down .

petra Thu 21-Jan-21 17:18:29

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Daisymae Thu 21-Jan-21 17:19:45

Jane - authors of the article -

Herb F Sewell, Emeritus Professor of Immunology and Consultant immunologist, University of Nottingham.

John FR Robertson, Professor of Surgery and Consultant Surgeon, University of Nottingham.

Marcia Stewart, Social Care professional and emeritus academic BA(Hons) De Montfort University.

Denise Kendrick, Professor of Primary Care Research and General Practitioner, University of Nottingham.

Sheila M Bird, formerly programme leader at the MRC Biostatistics Unit in Cambridge.

Daisymae Thu 21-Jan-21 17:24:35

petra - there isn't a right or wrong, just opinions that differ and that's OK

MissAdventure Thu 21-Jan-21 17:24:41

I'm none the wiser about who are the right experts to take notice of.

Sunlover Thu 21-Jan-21 18:27:53

TBH if there are two vaccinations available I would rather my husband and I had one each giving both of us some protection rather than one of us getting both and getting more protection and the other get none.

Curlygirl Fri 22-Jan-21 00:34:59

Today I have read online of at least 2 people who have caught Covid a month after their first vaccine. One is a nurse who had the Pfizer vaccine and the other a lady in her 80s who as she had her first vaccination before Christmas would also have had the Pfizer. Both of these are now past the three weeks when they would have expected to have had their 2nd vaccination, At the moment neither of them is seriously ill but presumably they could or even have unknowingly infected another person or more who may become seriously ill or even die. Surely this disproves the theory that just giving more people one vaccination with a longer gap can save the lives of others

maddyone Fri 22-Jan-21 08:24:45

That is extremely worrying.

The important word in the link is likely. In other words, even the scientists don’t know. Nobody knows. Posters on this site who claim to know, don’t know. Just because someone has a scientific background doesn’t mean they know. It’s all opinion. Eventually we will know, but don’t pretend that because your background is scientific that you know now. No one will know for several months. We just don’t know if this vaccine will behave in a similar way to others.

Alegrias1 Fri 22-Jan-21 08:41:12

Here I am again with my scientific background, writing about facts again....don't know how you all put up with it....

Curlygirl the vaccines have not (yet) been proven to prevent transmission, even after two doses. The good news is that both the people you mention have not been seriously ill, which may well be due to the fact that they have had the vaccine. We all have to keep on with the precautions just now until higher numbers are vaccinated precisely because we could still be passing it to unvaccinated people who might get very sick.

Alegrias1 Fri 22-Jan-21 08:43:11

And sorry, if course, nobody has claimed that the vaccine stops you catching covid, only that it lessens the likelihood of serious symptoms.

janeainsworth Fri 22-Jan-21 08:54:37

Thank you Alegrias?

maddyone Fri 22-Jan-21 09:52:04

According to The Times scientists have warned that delaying the second dose of the vaccine could have a catastrophic impact on efforts to end the pandemic. Data from Israel has already begun to show that delaying the second vaccine has shown that the delayed vaccine is much less effective than the UK government has claimed. The World Health Organisation have also said the vaccine should be administered as recommended. Scientists have warned that delaying the second jab could cause mutations. The headline on Reuters says UK scientists question Covid19 dosing vaccine delay. I’m rubbish at posting links but the article goes on to say scientists from Nottingham, Manchester and De Montford universities are questioning the government’s claim.

‘While assumptions can be useful for generating a hypothesis, alone they are not a sufficient reason to alter a known effective dosing regime.’

It’s really encouraging to know that Gransnetters know better!

growstuff Fri 22-Jan-21 09:57:56

Has the data from Israel shown that people who have only had one dose have gone on to develop severe symptoms? I though they were still waiting for results.

Israel has vaccinated a very high percentage of its citizens (the highest in the world?), so it's useful to keep an eye on any of their data.

It's never been claimed that vaccination would stop people from being infected, whatever the timing. The test will be in how badly these people are affected.

Alegrias1 Fri 22-Jan-21 09:58:05

Yes, isn't it Maddyone? And not just Gransnetters but the vast majority of the medical establishment in the UK who are just getting on with vaccinating people and not trying to get their names in the papers?

maddyone Fri 22-Jan-21 10:09:51

The information can be ignored, but it doesn’t mean that anyone absolutely knows that changing the recommended timeline of vaccination is a positive thing. The point is that that no one knows. The information is only just emerging from Israel. However for the majority of people Israel is sticking to the recommended timeline.

Alegrias1 Fri 22-Jan-21 10:11:56

I always check for sources...

The UK scientists question Covid19 dosing vaccine delay. There were 5 of them. The same 5 as were posted above, interestingly.

maddyone Fri 22-Jan-21 10:17:37

You’ve made up your mind that you know which I maintain you don’t! There’s nothing more to be said.

Nellie54 Fri 22-Jan-21 10:18:14

First dose next week, second booked for April. Suits us not getting stressed by all this discussion, they know if it was not safe they would be in dire trouble.
Far worse in other countries.

Alegrias1 Fri 22-Jan-21 10:20:35

Indeed nothing more to be said. I trust the medical establishment to do what is right for public health. I also expect medics and scientists who disagree with the decision to make their concerns known to the MHRA etc. I don't agree with using every little piece of news in a way that casts doubt on this massive undertaking, and I don't agree with frightening people into thinking that the government have made a decision about medical matters just to improve their image, and that's what's happening.

hicaz46 Fri 22-Jan-21 10:21:50

I think the real message has to be to have vaccine 1 and be careful, have vaccine 2 and still be careful. No matter how long the gap is between jabs I will still adhere to hands, face, space for many months to come.

MawBe Fri 22-Jan-21 10:22:47

It's never been claimed that vaccination would stop people from being infected, whatever the timing. The test will be in how badly these people are affected
Thank you for a timely reminder Alegrias also janeainsworth upthread - too many people, here, in the media and “outside” are treating the vaccine like our Get Out Of Jail Free card , I have read of those who are now “waiting for the immunity to kick in” and wondered if I was the only person to think that this is not the point.
We will still have to Hands, Face, Space etc for a long time and to my unscientific mind, the vaccination programme in Israel is too recent to draw significant conclusions.

Mooney59 Fri 22-Jan-21 10:25:14

If you get 10 scientists in a room you get 10 opinions. The job of a scientist is to say/find something nobody else has. Ergo they just spout stuff. They may believe it but in their "industry" nobody is publishing a paper on blandness they want shock horror and controversy.
Government scientists aren't immune either as they want to progress in their industry.
Having said the above we have very little option but to adhere to their advice even tho we know that advice will change next week. Eggs/apples/masks anyone?