Second vaccine dose timing

Still begs the question - 'Why is the UK the only country who is rolling out vaccinations to its population, who is having a 12 week gap between first and second?

I have always been told with any medication -'read the instructions and follow with care'. Instructions say first and second dose within three weeks of each other!!!

But it would not look so good for government propoganda machine as it would, effectively, half the numbers they can now claim are being vaccinated.

Sorry - cannot believe that people are still willing to trust any part of the current UK government and their so-called advisers. So far they have given this country one of the highest death rates and one of the worst economic outcomes for this Pandemic. So, why do we believe them when they say they know better than the companies that have developed and marketed these vaccines??

No, we'll call it quits . You did ask

Its absolutely the politicians that have to take the responsibility publicly but the scientists and medics who make the recommendations are bound to have the weight of that on their shoulders.

Alegrias1

I know you were going to say that! ???

Can we call it quits yet or do I have to agree you've won?

Possibly a graduate of Trump university?

You haven't told us yours, GrannyRose15 I thought it was going to be "You show me yours and I'l show you mine".

How do you get to be a "so-called expert"? Is it by buying a degree from a so-called university run from someone's back bedroom, or maybe getting a job in a so-called scientific establishment typing up so-called theses on so-called research?

knew

I know you were going to say that! ???

Alegrias1

PhD in Physics

Not epidemiology then?

I've stayed awake at night worrying about the impact all this is having on my children and grandchildren. On their finances, their well being, both mental and physical, on their education and their prospects for the future. All of which is looking pretty bleak at present.
The over - reaction of so-called experts has cost my family dear and will continue to take its toll years after I am dead.

I can however understand your comment about responsibility. It is our elected representatives that should be shouldering the responsibility, not the scientists. Their role should be to advise. And the politicians should be considering all points of view not just those of SAGE.

Alegrias. ???‍??

PhD in Physics

Alegrias1

^Science is all about discussion, disagreement and eventual concensus. This fundamental scientific process has been sadly lacking in our response to this virus.^

What's your science background GrannyRose15? Because clearly you have a rather unusual view of the "scientific process" Have you been present in any of the MHRA and JCVI meetings where they had to make the decisions that are meant to save as many lives as possible? Maybe you've stayed awake at night mulling over the implications of your decisions? I'm sure they have.

What's yours?

Although the phrase "lesser scientists" maybe isn't the one I'd have chosen I do agree with Ladyleftfieldlover . I've been amazed by the rent-a-quote brigade on TV recently. In particular one Public Health expert here in Scotland who regularly turns up on TV telling us what we already know, but with the words in a different order and the judicious use of "could".

Whitty and JVT are the people who are communicating and they are pretty good at it. Whitty in particular has been a revelation - the quiet man. But there are armies of scientists, medics and technical people at their backs who are making the recommendations. Casting doubt on them in favour of people who don't actually have any responsibility in any of this is unfair.

Science is all about discussion, disagreement and eventual concensus. This fundamental scientific process has been sadly lacking in our response to this virus.

What's your science background GrannyRose15? Because clearly you have a rather unusual view of the "scientific process" Have you been present in any of the MHRA and JCVI meetings where they had to make the decisions that are meant to save as many lives as possible? Maybe you've stayed awake at night mulling over the implications of your decisions? I'm sure they have.

If they have "treated us like idiots" it is probably because there are such a lot of people around whose understanding doesn't seem to stretch to anything more complicated than "The cat sat on the mat" There are a surprisingly large number of people whose reaction to anything even vaguely scientific is "Don't confuse me!" or even to mistrust it because it came from an acknowledged expert.

Ladyleftfieldlover

At the moment I am happy to listen to Whitty and JVT and believe what they say. They are the experts. I am getting fed up of lesser scientists spouting their beliefs. Shouldn’t we just listen to the acknowledged experts and ignore those who probably don’t have the full picture? Otherwise we are all going to go madder than we are already?

They aren’t “lesser scientists” ???. They are scientists with different jobs to Whitty and Van Tam.

Jobs like professorships, PHD’s working in the vaccine industry, or immunology or virologists.

They aren’t “lesser” it is just that you may not be aware of them or their expertise.

janeainsworth Sat 30-Jan-21 08:00:0

Suffice to say, if you think the police in this country use oppressive powers, I suggest you take a look at countries like China, Russia, or even Australia.

Unfortunately, jane I do not believe it necessary to visit these countries. All I need to do is stay here in England and wait.

It will come.

Scientists have always known that all viruses confer some degree of immunity. Yet, they have been disingenuous with the way they have presented the facts to the public. In other words they have treated us like idiots and expected us to hang onto their every word.

I'm so glad Ladyleftfieldlover you have faith in the chosen few scientists who have been advising the government. I wonder what makes you think that the "lesser" scientists you mention don't have an equally valid view.

Science is all about discussion, disagreement and eventual concensus. This fundamental scientific process has been sadly lacking in our response to this virus. As has a sense of proportion.

I’m sure they are being trialed now tbh. But medical science will almost always stick with proven data, and from our point of view, a jolly good job too

I agree that’s what should happen in an ideal world WW, but I think the problem with Covid from a public health point of view is that time is of the essence in controlling infection rates & hospitalisations. Cast-iron data won’t emerge for many months.
I think we have to distinguish between safety and efficacy too - personally I’m happy that the trials so far have satisfied safety requirements as far as reasonably practicable.
Efficacy perhaps takes longer to demonstrate and until we know whether vaccinated people transmit the virus, harder to evaluate from a public health point of view rather than an individual one, if that makes sense.
We sometimes have to make a leap of faith and I’m very grateful to all those volunteers who made that leap & took part in the trials which are eventually going to benefit us all.

I’m sure they are being trialed now tbh. But medical science will almost always stick with proven data, and from our point of view, a jolly good job too.

We have to be confident that the treatment we receive is absolutely based on the best data available and strictly controlled.

I suppose it could be that with different vaccines stimulating different Tcells and so on, it might be that they add together their effects and cause more immunity than one dose of each would have separately - but we shouldn't rely on it. I imagine there will be all kinds of trials and studies in the future.

That is of course unless further research proves otherwise?

Talking to DD and a quick conversation about whether mixing the vaccines is sensible.

Her reply was that the immune system is incredibly complicated and the vaccines are based on different technologies and will affect different immune cells like T cells and others, she went into the usual complicated explanation with me trying to sound as if I knew what she was talking about ? but I can’t remember what she said.

So the answer to my question that is it a good idea to mix vaccines the answer is No.

Jane and Grannyrose This is the point about science and continuing observation of the situation and accumulation of infirmation. You know more about it with everything observed.

If we had been told nothing at all at the start, they would have been an outcry about secrecy. They told us what was known. Later more was known and we were told more. Some people haven't added later news to their own database of information.

At the moment I am happy to listen to Whitty and JVT and believe what they say. They are the experts. I am getting fed up of lesser scientists spouting their beliefs. Shouldn’t we just listen to the acknowledged experts and ignore those who probably don’t have the full picture? Otherwise we are all going to go madder than we are already?