Second vaccine dose timing

growstuff was the sarcy comment aimed at me? You really should say who you are talking to. If it was. No. I am not over 80. I was 66 on Wednesday. But nor am I shielding. I am working my socks off helping literally hundreds of people a day getting to the correct place and moving around a large building. Many of them have mobility problems and need physical help or aren't quite sure where they are or why. All of them are enormously grateful for the opportunity they have been given. Lots of them bring treats and cakes for us. (That is definitely a hint to everyone waiting to get theirs!) I got my vaccination because there was some left at the end of the shift. And the NHS had to use it or lose it. I am hugely glad as my children were not happy about me working there.

The first people to be vaccinated didn't have the choice of delaying their first jab. They were told they would have the second one within two weeks.

Well, lucky you! I assume you're over 80.

This really isn't a matter of opinion and proving oneself right or wrong. That's just childish. It's about being transparent, which this government hasn't been right from the start. It's about knowing the facts. Personally, I don't have views either way - all I want to know is that an informed decision, not based on political point scoring, has been made.

Of course the simple solution is for everyone who doesn't approve of the longer wait to refuse to have the first vaccination until everyone else has been vaccinated twice, then join the back of the queue. Then, if you turn out to be correct , you can smugly say " I told you so". Of course , there is also a chance that you will be wrong, and will have spent months risking your health. As for me, I got vaccinated today. I work at a vaccination centre and I see the relief and gratitude on everyone's faces. I am delighted that I got the opportunity to have my first dose.

Its scientists that are questioning the rationale behind the governments decision. The decision is a risk according to many informed sources. Our governments likes a gamble as we all know. It's a risk that might or might not pay off and that needs to be recognised.

Pammie1

The government didn’t make the decision on the second dose timing, the scientists did. All the government can do is rely on the scientific evidence. I saw the end of a news report this morning that suggested the Pfizer vaccine is not as effective as they first thought. Several elderly people have caught Covid after being vaccinated and have died from it. I didn’t catch all of the report, so don’t know how long after vaccination they were infected.

I don't think the "scientists" (which scientists exactly?) made the decision to delay the second dose. The decison was made because there weren't enough doses to keep to the original schedule. It was a political decision.

Do people really and truly believe that all the medics and scientists would honestly let all those millions of pounds and hours of effort by thousands of NHS workers and others be absolutely wasted if a time gap rendered the entire process futile, useless and pointless?

No, but I think cynical politicians might, if it allowed them to state that x number of people had been vaccinated.

Alegrias1 you are absolutely right. Like you it make me really really angry that so many people believe what Facebook and the scaremongers tell them. Of course it is safe to wait. Do people really and truly believe that all the medics and scientists would honestly let all those millions of pounds and hours of effort by thousands of NHS workers and others be absolutely wasted if a time gap rendered the entire process futile, useless and pointless? And what if the mum of a petition signer died of Covid while waiting for the first dose so someone else could have two? On another point all the people I know who had both jabs in the two week period were ill after the second one, so maybe a bigger time gap is a good thing.

I agree with everyone thanking Alegrias for her posts. Her easy-to-understand posts are illuminating for those like me who get a bit baffled by the academic explanations.

Canklekitten I can see what you mean, but that would also mean giving first dibs at the vaccine to any of the ??? rule-breakers, like the beach or shopping centre crowders or the guests at yesterday’s wedding who are also potential spreaders.

Pammiel and Canklekitten I had that same conversation with a friend today, and it is an interesting thought. We should at least consider it!
There is one snag though. If it is true that the vaccine does not prevent you getting the virus, but only stops you getting really ill with it, this approach would simply not work.

Sigh. Alegrias, you keep saying you are a scientist, but don't tell us which field of science. The fact that you are a scientist does not mean you got all the answers. The rest of us are still capable of clear thinking, and making informed decisions.

Three questions and comments.
1) "The governments decision is based on the advice of scientists". Who advised them that a twelve week gap is just as good as a three week gap?
2) The research has been done with a three week gap between jabs, and has been approved as such. Where is the additional research that shows that a twelve week gap is as efficient?
3) Scientists are human, and therefore fallible. I accept their superior grasp of the subject, however, there has been enough concern voiced by medics and scientists (and not just in the Daily Mail) to make us lesser mortals take notice.

Science has become a bit of a substitute religion, and we tend to expect scientists to have THE right answer. Alas, life isn't like that, especially in a rapidly evolving situation like this pandemic. So, please, Alegrias, stop the shouting, and calmly argue your case, but don't pretend that there are no valid concerns.

@Canklekitten. I’m with you on this. I suggested the same thing in a mumsnet post a few days ago and had my ass handed to me !! Younger people tend to think more along the lines of ‘it can’t/won’t happen to me and from what I’ve seen out and about on the streets and in supermarkets, they’re much more lax than older people about social distancing. Surely if they were vaccinated first, it would arrest the spread much more quickly while the rest of the groups are given the vaccine. Or are we not being scientific about this ?

The government didn’t make the decision on the second dose timing, the scientists did. All the government can do is rely on the scientific evidence. I saw the end of a news report this morning that suggested the Pfizer vaccine is not as effective as they first thought. Several elderly people have caught Covid after being vaccinated and have died from it. I didn’t catch all of the report, so don’t know how long after vaccination they were infected.

I read in the paper today that data from Israel suggests one dose of the Pfizer vaccination may only give 33 per cent immunity instead of the higher figure of 89 per cent which has been suggested.
Having had my first vaccination two days ago I was surprised to read this. My second one is due in just under eleven weeks.

Debate in parliament????? Why don’t we just be thankful we’re in a country that has the vaccine........

Now I will really put the cat amongst the pigeons!!!! ....

In my opinion the young people who are out and about spreading the virus should be at the top of the list NOT pensioners!!!

There, I've said it!!

Different timings for Different vaccines there should be a minimum gap of 4 weeks with the astrazeneca one any small protection with first injection even if only small is better than nothing no vaccine is ever 100% effective and people may have already been exposed to covid prior to vaccination so makes it look like they caught it after

Too many experts on here.? I'll just listen to the medics and scientists.

I believe that if anyone should get the second vaccination at the advised time it should be the health and social care workers as they have to continue working in high risk situations while quite possibly those of us who are lucky enough to have retired will find it easier to continue to avoid risks until we get the second dose

I'm only 72, but have a large number of underlying health issues and since October have spent weeks in hospital/care homes, including Covid, possibly Long Covid. I'm carer for 3 disabled family members and my son with Aspergers has been forced to take over my caring roles. I feel aggrieved that I haven't yet been offered the vaccination; surely disabled carers over 70 should be treated as priority - My 88-year-old MIL has just been sent from hospital to a care home and she hasn't been vaccinated either. AIBU?

This was a long thread to read and absorb. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Alegrias1 for her insightful (and reassuring) posts. You have settled my mind, both on the gap between jabs, the reasoning behind the rationale for the proposal and the reminder that the vaccine isn’t there to stop us getting covid per se, it is to mitigate the horrifying worst symptoms and save people becoming so ill that they would need hospital interventions.

A heartfelt thank you from me Alegrias1 for your time and patience.

We in Canada do not have the luxury of getting the second dose in a timely manner as Pfizer have announced we will not be receiving ANY supplies at all next week and only 79,000 the following week!

Thank goodness at last for some very well reasoned posts agreeing with what I’ve said, that nobody knows what will happen if the vaccine is given on a made up timetable to suit the government.

I do know someone (family member, can say no more, whether you believe me or not is up to you), who is 'high up' in the clinical trials of these vaccines.
He is concerned that the good results obtained were for the vaccines delivered at those time intervals.
Trial results weren't for longer delays between 1st and 2nd injections, though they COULD be even better.
Also the trials did not cover 1st dose one vaccine, 2nd dose of another vaccine, although results MIGHT be even better.