How should we deal with the groups who refuse to have the vaccine?

Didn't it say on the.news tonight that particular vaccine was not suitable for over ,65s.I think it as the aztravenica one?

It's excellent news Amberone, thank you for sharing it.

Just seen this on the Oxford Uni news re transmission of original virus:

The authors also report further on the potential for the vaccine to reduce transmission of the virus, based on swabs obtained from volunteers in the UK arms of the trial with a 67% reduction after the first dose of the vaccine.

Very good news isn't it?

Coming back to the thread...I feel well and truly told off. I wasn’t talking about people who have genuine concerns, health, side effects etc, and certainly not children... who have no choice. I’m assuming they would have their fears alleviated by talking to their doctor. I’m talking about people who just don’t want to be told what to do, the protesters out without their masks, putting everyone at risk.

Scientists have worked so hard to develop these vaccines to make us all safe. I feel indebted to them, and to the people who have taken up the vaccine.

On the other hand...to answer the original question, no, you can’t make people have it.

Casdon When the vaccine was first released, I heard an interview with one of the team of developers. She was asked about the risk to pregnant women. She replied that, although pregnant women were not specifically tested, several of the volunteer ‘guinea pigs’ became pregnant during the trial and there had been no recorded ill-effects to either mother or child. Of course, that is not completely reliable as it was a small number but, sounds quite promising.

I guess that there is a general frustration about those people who are in front line NHS or social care roles in particular who are refusing the have the vaccine Amberone, which I think is understandable, because through their jobs they may infect those who are unable to be vaccinated because of their clinical conditions, and may die as a result.

Employment regulations would need to be changed to make compulsory vaccination for people in those roles possible, and it is a big dilemma for employers.

For the general population I think it’s much more difficult to be prescriptive, in one sense it’s their own risk if they choose not to be vaccinated, but if too high a proportion take that line it will increase the risk of mutated strains which could mean the whole population will again be unprotected. Really difficult, I guess we will only know what happens in the fullness of time.

Casdon

Amberone your statement is inaccurate, because it’s been widely reported that the scientists don’t know yet if being vaccinated will prevent people passing the virus on or not. We will know either way in a few weeks.

Agreed.

Casdon Thank you. That's very true. I can understand that we won't know either way until we've had more time to analyse what happens.

NellG That was part of my point - until we get something that eradicates the virus this vaccine is intended to protect as much as possible. As Casdon pointed out we don't know yet whether this vaccine will stop us spreading it, so at the moment it is safer all round to assume we still can and keep our distance.

I was just trying to understand the anger directed at those who say they are refusing the vaccine at the moment - for some (like me) it could be months before they are even offered it and by then there may be more information that will change minds.

Before I become the target of the anger - I haven't and won't be refusing the vaccine

If I don't know yet whether someone takes milk in their tea, that is not the same as knowing for sure that they don't.

Not knowing yet whether it stops the spread is not the same as knowing for sure that it doesn't.

If it may slow it down then it is better to have the vaccine in hope, than not to have it at all.

Amberone your statement is inaccurate, because it’s been widely reported that the scientists don’t know yet if being vaccinated will prevent people passing the virus on or not. We will know either way in a few weeks.

blondenana

Regarding the covid vaccine ,surely people working in care homes should have it.or have a job which doesnt involve caring for Ill or elderly people

I know a care home manager and they are considering ending the contracts if those who won’t have it on health and safety grounds. They’re doing all the right things - consultation, education etc. It’s an interesting thought.

Amberone, the vaccine is the control. Covid is never going to go away, it's here to stay.

This thread is confusing me a bit. Why all the fuss about people refusing this vaccine? It doesn't stop anyone contracting or spreading the virus - it's purely an extra protection against getting very ill and possibly dying as far as I know. I thought that was why the at-risk were getting it first. It hopefully stops people dying and keeps people out of our over loaded hospitals.

People who have had this vaccine will spread it just as much as people who have not been vaccinated and the virus won't go away until we find a means of controlling it. So as far as I can see the people who will suffer are the unvaccinated - who may end up being 'dealt' with on ventilators or in funeral homes. Or maybe I am just out of touch ?

I think it will just become "the norm" eventually.
Things take time.

I think (hope) it will become socially unacceptable in time not to have it. I read where when seatbelts were introduced lots of people said they wouldn’t wear them. Now? It’s almost unknown not to wear one.

I’ve always been paranoid about keeping my tetanus jab up to date, even though they reckon it lasts for longer than the 10 years. Tetanus would be a really silly thing to die of.

I had to have the Hep B vaccination as I worked with people with a learning disability also we were encouraged to keep our tetanus jabs updated.
This was many years ago now, nothing new is there.

It might have been mentioned before but the ultra Orthodox Jews are being very non compliant in Israel. I can understand that having stood next to an Orthodox Jew one Saturday that couldn’t ring a doorbell to get into the maternity wing where his wife had given birth and I had to ring the bell for him.

Thanks, Jane

Is it actually a requirement of the job, janea? I guess it needs to be to protect patients.
Yes Baggs it is, but as much for the protection of staff as for patients.
Anyone we employed as a dental nurse not only had to have the vaccination but evidence of seroconversion too and if they didn’t, to have a booster vaccination, before they could work in the surgery doing chair side assistance or handling contaminated instruments.

Surgeons (and dentists) have to have Hep B vaccination because Hepatitis B is spread by exchange of body fluids

The dentist I had as a child contracted hepatitis through his job. He took on the dentistry for a prison after he retired from his family dentist business. He was very ill. I suppose it won't have taken too many incidents like that to persuade all those doing surgery to have a Hep B vax.

Is it actually a requirement of the job, janea? I guess it needs to be to protect patients.

The best way to deal with it is to try to persuade them to change their minds.

A good number of countries are trying to ascertain whether it is legal to deny entry to concerts, theatres, public transport to all those who cannot produce a vaccination certificate when asked.

Personally, I cannot see the problem in denying people who have no conception of consideration for others entry to events and places where many people will be gathered together.

I wonder what insurance companies intend to do about those who apply for a life insurance?

Of course if a care worker refused Covid vaccination, presumably they’d have to carry on wearing PPE for the rest of their working lives.

Maybee A surgeon said he had to have a hepatitis vaccine or he wouldn’t be allowed to do his job.imo all care workers should have the vaccine. Why should they be different to surgeons?

Surgeons (and dentists) have to have Hep B vaccination because Hepatitis B is spread by exchange of body fluids (as opposed to aerosols) and they are doing what’s known as exposure-prone procedures, ie during surgery, theoretically, there could be an exchange of blood or saliva.

Care workers are unlikely to be faced with having to carry those out.

I am starting to question whether I'm that bothered about living in a world where it is thought acceptable to propose marking people with indelible ink.