How should we deal with the groups who refuse to have the vaccine?

AprilRose I know people who have survived a stroke or a heart attack, but I don't therefore believe that there is no need for me (or them) to take medically accepted precautions against it happening.

The question was "How should we deal with them?" My answer would be that to protect ourselves we should try to ensure that we don't have to deal with them.

Where those who have not been vaccinated will be in an enclosed space with others - a plane with the same air being recirculated for hours - the airline is protecting its passengers by asking that they all have a vaccination certificate. That has been required for ages for those going where diseases like yellow fever are prevalent (for their own safety and so that it isn't imported into this country), and it is accepted.

aprilrose

*By which time half a million more people will have died in the UK alone and all our businesses will have gone under. OK, let's try that then*

Businesses have already gone I am afraid . As for deaths. Death is inevitable. You cant stave it off. Its the deaths we are now going to have because we didnt take care of the economy that concern me more. Stop scaremongering over a virus whose lethality for most except the most vulnerable is around 0.01%.

Pity you didnt care about the others earlier .

Lethality? I think you've made up a word. You've certainly made up a fact. Nobody can be absolutely sure what the mortality rate of Covid-19 is, but it's nearer 0.1% of those infected than 0.01%, which is quite a difference.

Not only that, but for many people it's much higher, including many who could still expect to live for some time yet.

Here's a parallel. How do we deal with those who refuse to practise safe sex, exposing themselves and others to the risk of contracting STDs of varying kinds, including lethal HiV and AIDS? Most STDs, too, are not going to kill most people who get them, except for the unfortunate, but they do lead to a lot of misery, which can be ongoing and long-lasting. So does CoVid.

If we are aware of their self-centred blinkers, we refuse to engage in sexual activity with them. If we are aware that our potential fellow-travellers, hairdressers, dentists, beauticians, teachers, nurses have not taken the trouble to make sure that they don't carry and pass on the CoVid virus, we can make sure that they don't breathe all over us. But we can't ask each of them individually, we have to rely on airlines, salons, surgeries, hospitals, schools to check for us.

aprilrose How much do you know about the immune system? It would be interesting to know why you think yours is healthy.

What does it matter? It is none of your business what qualifications I have in this field.

I do have some as it happens. But even experts are not recognised unless they tell you what you want to hear in this forum often - at least in my experience, so the question is irrelevant

Lethality? I think you've made up a word

There is such a word. look it up. When you show such ignorance yourself, you should hardly be questioning other peoples facts.

That is the case with many here.

Its a bit of a waste of time trying to discuss a topic when too many people want to deflect from the focus with their personal flack.

You have rather moved the goalposts Aprilrose.
You now say that you personally have good reasons to refuse the vaccine, but in your first few posts in this thread you didn’t make this clear and were generally advocating for people who have no medical contra-indications and no reason for refusing the vaccine other than their own prejudice and ignorance.

I dont think the HIV comparison really works although it was a massive debate in the nineties. It went round and round too. Yes you can choose not to have sex with someone who you think has practised unsafe sex, but actually the only way to protect yourself is to practice safe sex yourself because you never really know what people are doing!

True, Galaxy, but then it is "everyone for him/herself" and the concept of "Public Health" with no-one expected to take any care not to infect others is negated.

Those who are in a position to carry infection to many others because of their job or because they are about to be shut up in a confined space for hours with other travellers and no fresh air have a responsibility to them. If they don't see fit to carry out that responsiblity voluinraily, those who employ them or admit them to travelling in a crowded plane need to take it on.

aprilrose

*Lethality? I think you've made up a word*

There is such a word. look it up. When you show such ignorance yourself, you should hardly be questioning other peoples facts.

That is the case with many here.

Its a bit of a waste of time trying to discuss a topic when too many people want to deflect from the focus with their personal flack.

The word "lethality" means to cause death usually by dangerous weapons, which is not what you meant. You really need to take a long look at yourself before you accuse others of not having the capacity to question facts.

I seriously hope everybody here has more than enough sense to see through your nonsense.

aprilrose

*aprilrose How much do you know about the immune system? It would be interesting to know why you think yours is healthy.*

What does it matter? It is none of your business what qualifications I have in this field.

I do have some as it happens. But even experts are not recognised unless they tell you what you want to hear in this forum often - at least in my experience, so the question is irrelevant

It matters because you spout a load of contradictory nonsense.

growstuff

aprilrose

aprilrose How much do you know about the immune system? It would be interesting to know why you think yours is healthy.

What does it matter? It is none of your business what qualifications I have in this field.

I do have some as it happens. But even experts are not recognised unless they tell you what you want to hear in this forum often - at least in my experience, so the question is irrelevant

It matters because you spout a load of contradictory nonsense.

growstuff 'Kettle black'

Your post: Quotegrowstuff Thu 25-Feb-21 11:00:41
Lethality? I think you've made up a word.

Next one: Quotegrowstuff Thu 25-Feb-21 20:16:31
The word "lethality" means to cause death usually by dangerous weapons.

Next one: Quotegrowstuff Thu 25-Feb-21 20:19:00
It matters because you spout a load of contradictory nonsense.

So this must apply to you too then!

Anything could be lethal; a car, a brick wall, a medication, even an injection could be lethal!

But that doesn't mean that there is a clumsy noun like "lethality" to describe their effect! AprilRose did invent the word and she has, in many posts on this thread, "spouted contradictory nonsense"

Perhaps you are able to reconcile the contradictions for us, Yoginimeisje ?

Last night there was a most interesting Horizon programme on BBC 2, all about the Coronavirus, its many mutations and the way vaccines work. It exploded several myths about the vaccines, including the rumour that they contain live virus. The basis of the vaccines is genetic engineering at its best. It was probably "preaching to the converted", but if any vaccine deniers/doubters remain at all open minded, I suggest that they have a look at it on i-Player. I think I might watch it again as I was beginning to feel a bit sleepy!

Yes I watched that programme Annodomini, very interesting.

Yoginimeisje

growstuff 'Kettle black'

Your post: Quotegrowstuff Thu 25-Feb-21 11:00:41
Lethality? I think you've made up a word.

Next one: Quotegrowstuff Thu 25-Feb-21 20:16:31
The word "lethality" means to cause death usually by dangerous weapons.

Next one: Quotegrowstuff Thu 25-Feb-21 20:19:00
It matters because you spout a load of contradictory nonsense.

So this must apply to you too then!

Anything could be lethal; a car, a brick wall, a medication, even an injection could be lethal!

You're being silly.

"Lethality" is not a word which can be use to refer to case mortality.

Elegran

But that doesn't mean that there is a clumsy noun like "lethality" to describe their effect! AprilRose did invent the word and she has, in many posts on this thread, "spouted contradictory nonsense"

Perhaps you are able to reconcile the contradictions for us, Yoginimeisje ?

Thank you Elegran.

I can understand people trying to conceive not having the vaccine. I am sure some of us on here are old enough to remember the drugs like thalidomide that was said to be safe.

chris8888

I can understand people trying to conceive not having the vaccine. I am sure some of us on here are old enough to remember the drugs like thalidomide that was said to be safe.

Thalidomide wasn't a vaccine and safety tests and trials have come on in leaps and bounds since then. Interestingly, it's still used for a number of conditions such as leprosy.

One of the drugs that can result in an adverse reaction is aspirin but I bet plenty of anti vacc’ers have taken that over the years. Or ibuprofen for pain without taking tummy protection with it.

MayBee70
One of the drugs that can result in an adverse reaction is aspirin
Not to mention that drug favoured by millions, viz. alcohol in its many and varied presentations!

The vaccine for Swine flu had terrible side effects on many. My son has suffered for 10yrs after having it.

Thalidomide wasn't a vaccine but was something the doctors said to put into your body assuring it was safe. My playground was next to the junior school with all the Thalidomide victims in. The sight of those poor children will never leave my mind. There was a documentary on it quite recently. The poor mothers that took Thalidomide were in torture!

Yogainmeisje I'm sorry to read that your son had side effects from the Swine flu vaccines. That is bound to have an impact on your view of vaccines. Without wanting to sound heartless though, we all need to be aware that only 300 people in Europe out of the 60 - 90 million swine flu vaccines administered had these side effects. I'm not minimising the effect on those 300, not at all, but when it comes to risk, the risk from catching Swine Flu was much bigger.

The thalidomide comparisons have been gone over many times so I'm not going to comment on those.