Summer holidays abroad ‘extremely unlikely’ as third wave hits Europe

Urmstongran I agree, we want so much to go back to our house in France, it is only just across the Channel.

COVID is indiscriminate, it does not discriminate between those visiting a foreign country to sell or let properties and those just wanting to visit to stay in their own home, rent a property or stay in a hotel.

Fortunately I haven’t had to go on holiday out of term-time since I retired. We’ve just booked a four night break at the coast in mid-July for £320, including breakfast. It would have been only £240 in late May, considerably dearer once the schools broke up.

I only know what I I read! But my reaction is no thanks I’ll wait !

Lucca £1,229 for a family of 4 Butlins Bognor, probably normal, that’s with no food court, circus tickets etc. Second week in August. Maybe The Times added in all optional extras?
It’s generally expensive in school holidays, another thread maybe.

hear not heard. The amount of noise people create outside of caravans is unreal really, that's why we only ever book them out of season or for the weekend.

I think caravan holidays have always been quite expensive in high season. We pay just under 2k for the week in the house we stay in every year (it is a holiday for my eldest daughter who has a severe learning disability amongst other things and it just works) but I know I've looked at caravans for the same week and they are always more expensive and although she would love the entertainment, I just don't see why myself. I would rather have a bit more comfort and not be able to heard other people's holiday arguments.

Just a little something for those who are totally ok with holidays in the UK....
I read in the Times to day
“A week at Butlins in Minehead, Somerset for a family of four in mid August will cost £3,433. A two bedroomed cottage in Cornwall is £2,765 for the same week. “

It breaks my heart to feel that I won’t be able to visit my son and grandson in France again. I saw him just after he was born,and he is now walking and talking.
Thank goodness for FaceTime..but I do so want to cuddle them,feel them and smell them.

I’m sorry my opinion bothers you Monica. I’m afraid we’ll have to agree to differ.

maddyone, your own list of facts displays how wrong your belief that younger people were locked down to protect the old is.

But I will concentrate on one; Mortality rates are higher among some people working in public facing occupations although I would replace 'some' people with 'all' people. While there are older workers in the group continuing to have face to face contact with other people. By far the majority range from 16 to retirement age.

The reason that COVID rates are so high among them is because they are constantly in contact with other people - and they will almost all be using PPC. Just think if the whole of that age range were free to wander and mix freely, when the vast majority would not be wearing PPC. The virus would run free. Hospitals would be overwhelmed.

As Casdon has said You have also completely avoided the issue of long covid, something mainly younger victims suffer from and the concerns among doctors that even among those with seemingly simple COVID attacks with no visible problems, many may well develop further problems later on.

The lockdowns we have had and continue to have are there to protect all of us, it is sheer vanity to think everyone was locked down to protect the old.

I am no rule breaker so much as it saddens me, I do realise that international travel won’t be on the cards any time soon. When our government decree it is safe to do so, I’m off but not until then. I’m not pretending we rent our apartment in Malaga. We shall wait patiently until we are allowed to travel. It’s a disappointment shelling out for community fees on a property not being used but it is what it is.

JaneJudge

growstuff

JaneJudge

There are a lot of people over 60 in full time employment (or even part time) in high risk environments. You only have to go to a supermarket or a hospital to see this, it isn't just young people going out to work.

The retirement age is 66, so of course there are plenty of "elderly" people in work. Are they all selfish too?

I don't know growstuff, I'll ask my Mum but if you call her elderly again she wont be very happy

I put "elderly" in inverted commas for a reason. Your Mum sounds fearsome, so I promise not to mention it again.

What about long COVID though maddyone? It affects 10% of under 50s who get COVID, and if there’s a big spike in infections again that will be a big issue economically and for the NHS as well as for families.

growstuff

JaneJudge

There are a lot of people over 60 in full time employment (or even part time) in high risk environments. You only have to go to a supermarket or a hospital to see this, it isn't just young people going out to work.

The retirement age is 66, so of course there are plenty of "elderly" people in work. Are they all selfish too?

I don't know growstuff, I'll ask my Mum but if you call her elderly again she wont be very happy

maddyone

We should all be aware of the Covid deaths facts in the UK.

1) Mortality rates rise sharply with age
2) Mortality rates are higher among men than women
3) Mortality rates are significantly higher in people with pre existing conditions (as people age they become more likely to have pre existing conditions)
4) Mortality rates are 120% higher in the most deprived compared with the least deprived decile of areas
5) Mortality in the black group is almost twice that of the white group
6) Mortality rates are higher among some people working in public facing occupations
7) Excess weight is associated with an increased risk of.........hospitalisation, severe disease, and death

Source: The Kings Fund, Deaths From Covid19, how are they counted and what do they show.

A few facts for those who are interested. Note: the the first fact, mortality rises with age, which the statistics prove unequivocally.

But death isn't the only consequence of covid infection, is it?

So you're perfectly happy for people to suffer long term debilitating, life changing, consequences of covid? That's just a bit of tough luck for them, isn't it.

Sounds just like the Leave voters who shrug off any bad effect their vote had on other people's lives.

And we're 'entitled'?

What are you implying maddyone? That their lives don't matter?

JaneJudge

There are a lot of people over 60 in full time employment (or even part time) in high risk environments. You only have to go to a supermarket or a hospital to see this, it isn't just young people going out to work.

The retirement age is 66, so of course there are plenty of "elderly" people in work. Are they all selfish too?

Jane Judge you are correct, there are plenty of people still in work who are in their sixties. That doesn’t change the fact that;

mortility rates rise sharply with age

In other words, the older you are, the more likely you are to die if you get Covid.

The voice of reason from Dinahmo. The important thing going forward is everything is done to support those who have lost most. I expect the so-called "entitled" will be more than happy to cough up to pay for better education and family support amongst the groups who have been most affected. It's a shame that there have been ten years of cutting services, but I'm sure it will all be reversed. This has more to do with pre-exiting divisions in society, which have been exacerbated by Covid, than age.

PS. I just saw a flying pig.

We am bubbling with a lady of 80 whose family live in London, Essex and Dubai.
The Dubai family have just returned to the U.K. via Greece.
I’m not sure of the exact chain of events but it runs something like this-
Test in Dubai before leaving, spend 5 days in an hotel in Athens. Test. A few days at leisure. Test before flying to U.K.
Leave airport and go home to wherever.
That’s the story I have been told. Perhaps one of you has more information?
Until our government really takes control over people coming to this country we could be in trouble.
I think they should stop all travel without strict controls, that means proper quarantine, and then let us open up here.

There are a lot of people over 60 in full time employment (or even part time) in high risk environments. You only have to go to a supermarket or a hospital to see this, it isn't just young people going out to work.

We should all be aware of the Covid deaths facts in the UK.

1) Mortality rates rise sharply with age
2) Mortality rates are higher among men than women
3) Mortality rates are significantly higher in people with pre existing conditions (as people age they become more likely to have pre existing conditions)
4) Mortality rates are 120% higher in the most deprived compared with the least deprived decile of areas
5) Mortality in the black group is almost twice that of the white group
6) Mortality rates are higher among some people working in public facing occupations
7) Excess weight is associated with an increased risk of.........hospitalisation, severe disease, and death

Source: The Kings Fund, Deaths From Covid19, how are they counted and what do they show.

A few facts for those who are interested. Note: the the first fact, mortality rises with age, which the statistics prove unequivocally.

Maddyone Please explain how older people were protected. We were told to stay at home. Some of us are lucky in that we have spacious houses and gardens, most of us aren't. I thought that we were staying at home to avoid spreading the disease so I suppose in that respect we were protected but also protecting others at the same time.

It is not a privilege but a right to receive our pensions - we have earned them by making contributions for over 40 years. With the increase in pension age for some people it will be fifty.

Some young people are doing very well during covid - maybe not that many but some. The grandchildren of one of my friends have been in Italy for several months (their mother is Italian) They go to private school and have been doing their lessons on line. They've been having a fine time.

However, there are thousands of children who are really suffering and there has been a massive increase in child abuse (and wife beating). There aren't sufficient social workers to deal with these problems.

Turning to employment - currently the percentage of economically active unemployed people aged over 16 is 5%.
This means that 95% are in employment! It also means that 1.7 million people are unemployed. (ONS November to January)

As we know, hospitality, retail and entertainment are the sectors most badly affected. Since the crisis began 693,000 payroll jobs have been affected. The majority of those (2/3) were the under 25s. Many of the people working in those sectors will be students working to support themselves. Those jobs will return once everyone is able to go out. Cinemas and theatres will re-open, as will pubs and restaurants. These are buildings. They will still be there when we can get out. Maybe some of the restaurant owners or pub landlords or cinema chains will have gone bankrupt but someone else will come along to start up new businesses.

Rather than arguing about which group of people have suffered the most, we should be doing our utmost by trying to ensure that businesses are able to start up again and to ensure there is much more support for those who have suffered mentally and physically over the last year. Those older people who have saved money will be only too willing to go out and spend it, once they get the green light. We have had a discussion about govt bonds elsewhere on GN but many of those people with surplus capital will be willing to take up some (assuming that there is a reasonable return)

We have the highest infection and death rate among the under 50s in Europe. But never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

And who the bloody hell is being 'ungrateful'?