The ethics of giving children the Covid vaccine

Callistemon
You are right to question the need for children to be vaccinated mainly to protect other people. This is a very new vaccine, although I’m aware that the AZ vaccine has been made to act in a similar way to other vaccines, so is not actually so very new, nonetheless how this particular vaccine would affect children is unknown at present. The probability is that it’s safe, but we don’t know.

What I am questioning is the need for children to be vaccinated for the greater good of the public when most adults, apart from those who refuse, are being vaccinated anyway.

The only logical argument would be if a high percentage of children become very ill or are likely to die from Covid and that is not the case.

suziewoozie

I still think we need to know more about the long term impact of the vaccine on the developing child. There’s a good reason why we don’t give medication to children in the same way we do to adults - it’s because they are still growing and developing. They are not adults. It’ll be interesting to see how this is presented (spun?) to us - saving children or reducing the spread.

Absolutely agree. I also agree with Callistemon.
We cannot assume that because the vaccine is safe for adults that’s also safe for children.

SueDonim

Children are vaccinated against rubella not because of the illness itself, which can go unnoticed because it’s usually very mild, but to protect pregnant women and their unborn babies.

Yes rubella vaccine is an interesting example but quite a complex one as well compared to the covid vaccine. Firstly, if you get the two standard doses, the immunity should last for life ( we don’t know yet how often we’ll have to have the covid vaccine) and secondly, when it was first introduced it was only given to young girls to protect them in advance from getting rubella in pregnancy. Over time, the limitations of this became apparent and it was combined with MM and given to all children. By this time of course there was a great deal of global clinical data as to its long term safety with children. So there was a great deal of time before it was used across all children and from a very young age.
Just to be clear, I’m not arguing per se against children being vaccinated but suggesting there's an ethical debate to be had before that happens.

Good point, SueDonim - so there's already an example, out there, of vaccination to protect others.

We do have to consider, too, the safety of those who've been advised not to have a vaccine.

Children are vaccinated against rubella not because of the illness itself, which can go unnoticed because it’s usually very mild, but to protect pregnant women and their unborn babies.

Why not ? Covid is alongside the other infectious diseases such as the MMR jabs are given to guard against.

Call I'm certainly not advocating the vaccination of children with an untested vaccine, that would certainly be unethical. Of course the vaccine would have to be tested in children before any rollout. I understand that this in itself throws up ethical questions.

But we have had many threads stating strongly that everyone should have the vaccination, to help themselves and others. So if it was shown that the vaccine did not present any risk to children, shouldn't they be vaccinated to help protect the adults and children who can't have the vaccine for health reasons?

I don't have the answer, I'm putting that out there for discussion.

If it is proven that having this vaccine protects children and it is proved that it would be, on balance, safer for them to have it than not, then it could be argued that this should be implemented.

So far, there is no research to show that it would be advantageous for children and, as the adult population will in the main be vaccinated, the argument for has no basis in fact.

Dont vaccines protect kids?
Kids dont get vaccinated to protect adults

Alegrias1

Will it come down to the risk of harm from the vaccine versus risk of harm from the disease, balanced with the impact it could have on the health of the whole population?

The rest of the population have the chance to be vaccinated so their chances of catching Covid or becoming very ill as a result are greatly reduced.

Should children be subjected to a vaccine, as yet untested on younger age groups, for the benefit of adults when the vaccination programme for adults is well under way?

Vaccinating children to protect already vaccinated adults is therefore pointless.

If to protect the children themselves then that is a different consideration.

AmberSpyglass

It may be a new vaccine but it’s had all the appropriate tests. I would absolutely give it to my young children.

No it hasn’t

Callistemon

Which gives rise to another question:
Should boys be given the HPV vaccine?

I thought this was beginning to be rolled out.

Of course it is correct and ethical for vaccines to be given to children. I am far more concerned about parents who refuse to have normal vaccines for their children, relying on other people getting their children done for protection.

Have felt for a long time that no state nursery or school, etc should be open to children who are not vaccinated. Flu nasal spray was used this year for primary school ages, hopefully, in future this vaccination - in one form or the other will also be available for secondary school aged children

Unbelievable that parents are not giving permission for their teenage daughters to have the HPV jab - stupidly saying this will encourage them to have sex. Wonder of any of these girls could, in future years, sue their parents for neglect??

Yes , by all means Covid vaccine to children and to all - her and throughout the world.

It may be a new vaccine but it’s had all the appropriate tests. I would absolutely give it to my young children.

As the Covid vaccine is quite new I do feel uneasy about giving it to young children. They don't seem to suffer badly from Covid and unlikely to have symptoms at all.
All vaccines have side effects and all the ones that children are given are to prevent serious illness which many have succumbed to in the past - measles, diptheria for instance.
There is always a risk with a vaccine and I am not sure I would give it unless I felt there was a chance that the child would become very ill with covid.

Thanks, I hadn't actually done much research on it but was surprised that DGS had just had it, thinking it was just girls who would have that vaccine.

Callistemon

Which gives rise to another question:
Should boys be given the HPV vaccine?

I would say yes because apart from cervical cancer, it offers some protection from the others on the list

cervical cancer
some mouth and throat (head and neck) cancers
some cancers of the anal and genital areas
It also helps protect against genital warts.

suziewoozie

Whitewavemark2

Children never give informed consent against other virus vaccines, so that is that argument out of the window.

The only reason not to vaccinate a child in my opinion is if the scientists are not satisfied that it is safe.

Not heard any suggestion to the contrary yet. And I assume the trials are well under way.

The parents give consent and once children get to 13ish the Gillick competence test comes in.

The only reason a child should get a vaccine is because the child could potentially benefit. Not all children get the flu jab - only those who could potentially benefit ie

Those 2 and 3 years old on 31August in current flu season
All primary school children
All 6 months- 18 with a health condition that puts them at greater risk from flu

I’m surprised when we limit who we give the flu jab to ( whose long term safety profile is well established) that some of you think it’s fine to vaccinate all children ‘if it’s safe’ . What is safe with a developing child?

I am not a scientist nor an I privy to the appropriate data.

So, given that if the guidance is that children can be safely vaccinated then I am willing to go with the guidance, just as I am willing to go with the guidance for myself and when my children were below the age of consent.

That is all I can do, and quite frankly knowing that -however remote the possibility - my child could suffer long covid or die, I would take the vaccine.

I am unclear in the history of vaccines that any are not given because of contra-indications.

Which gives rise to another question:
Should boys be given the HPV vaccine?

The only reason a child should get a vaccine is because the child could potentially benefit.

I agree.

Few children have COVID, but the incidence of symptomless COVID in younger age groups means that they can be carriers and pass it on to others. COVID could also mutate to be dangerous to children, or to make the prime vectors for the disease.

Several bubbles in DGD's school closed down within days of school resuming because one or more of the children had been found to have a symptomless case of COVID.

We don't have the smallpox vaccine now, do we? I worry that such viruses are still retained in laboratories.

It is mainly children who are susceptible to polio, measles etc and the evidence shows these can have more of an impact on children than Covid has - so far at least.
140,000 children, mainly younger infants, died from measles worldwide in 2018. This despite a vaccination programme.

Whitewavemark2

Children never give informed consent against other virus vaccines, so that is that argument out of the window.

The only reason not to vaccinate a child in my opinion is if the scientists are not satisfied that it is safe.

Not heard any suggestion to the contrary yet. And I assume the trials are well under way.

The parents give consent and once children get to 13ish the Gillick competence test comes in.

The only reason a child should get a vaccine is because the child could potentially benefit. Not all children get the flu jab - only those who could potentially benefit ie

Those 2 and 3 years old on 31August in current flu season
All primary school children
All 6 months- 18 with a health condition that puts them at greater risk from flu

I’m surprised when we limit who we give the flu jab to ( whose long term safety profile is well established) that some of you think it’s fine to vaccinate all children ‘if it’s safe’ . What is safe with a developing child?

I do not agree that it's unethical to vaccinate children but that will always come with a risk. As most are asymptomatic, and hence it doesn't affect their health, it is not a priority. Once the adult population are vaccinated and we know how long the vaccine protects us for, then we could determine whether children need it.