Should masks be worn by all food handlers in the future?

My grandchildren have been wearing masks all day at school and have got used to it. One even wore her mask as she walked home. There should not be a problem for all food handlers, including waiters and those selling unwrapped cheese, meat etc to wear masks all day. They could remove them for tea breaks and lunch breaks.

I also think we should all continue to wear masks when shopping.

I certainly would not want to wear one all day so I certainly would not vote for someone else to.

I did have an earlier post where I said the local bakery were wearing plastic gloves to handle the bread and then take your cash money. The gloves were black with dirt which I presume came off the money. That is the kind of thing I'm referring to. Pretending to be hygienic by using plastic gloves is ridiculous. They may as well have used their bare hands. A second person should be handling the money.

Chestnut
I still agree with what Monica has said. Of course basic hygiene should be attended to in restaurants and shops, and like Monica, I am guided by the hygiene rating on the door.
I simply meant that life has to get back to some sort of normal, otherwise our economy will be even more shot than it is already, and given that many of us have been vaccinated twice, and those who haven’t are quickly catching up, life has to be resumed. With that in mind, we have been out to restaurants twice since we are able to eat inside. If some people are nervous and don’t want to go out yet, that’s absolutely fine, but for the rest of us, we will try to resume our normal lives without too much worry.
Having said that, normal hygiene must always be adhered to, hence the hygiene ratings on the restaurant door.

chestnut I assume that any restaurant I go in will be obeying the usual rules of hygiene and will have been inspected and have the score on the door. In the UK we have high and clearhygiene standards that restaurants are meant to meet and I am happy to assume these standards are met unless I see evidence to the contrary

I do not think I have ever been in a restaurant where the chef took the cash and the waiter put their hands in the food. Most people, even before COVID paid for meals with a card anyway.

I want and need a strong immune system and that means that in my ordinary everyday life I need to pick up bacteria on my hands, breathe it in and ingest it so that my immune system receives the challenges it needs to stay strong. Cooking will kill any bacteria in the food.

Seem sa very practical suggestion, unless you happen to be a food worker, particularly in a kitchen. Hell on earth, I should think.

maddyone

Chestnut
Could you point out where I said food handlers needn’t follow basic rules of hygiene please.

Not really your post, but MOnica had implied that worrying about all this was not necessary, just go out and enjoy yourself. Just because you go out for a meal doesn't mean ignoring rules of hygiene if you see something you feel is wrong.

No, I think it would be totally unfair and impossible for those who work in hot kitchens. Hard enough already honestly. Just try and imagine.

So yes, continue for now, but really not forever.

Chestnut
Could you point out where I said food handlers needn’t follow basic rules of hygiene please.

maddyone

I agree with Monica and Maisie. Enjoy your meal out Monica. We need to get back to some kind of normal, we can’t live like this indefinitely. Thank goodness for the vaccine.

We can all enjoy a meal out and normal life while the food handlers employ basic rules of hygiene. I'm not sure what the two have to do with each other.

I agree with Monica and Maisie. Enjoy your meal out Monica. We need to get back to some kind of normal, we can’t live like this indefinitely. Thank goodness for the vaccine.

Chestnut

^COVID is not transmitted by touch. We have been told that again and again, it is breathing in the infection that passes on the illness^
So why are we washing our hands?
Recent research evaluated the survival of the COVID-19 virus on different surfaces and reported that the virus can remain viable for up to 72 hours on plastic and stainless steel, up to four hours on copper, and up to 24 hours on cardboard.
So the virus can easily be passed on money handled by food workers who touch the food.

The research you quote was where surfaces were deliberately contaminated with larger quantities of the virus than would be there in 'everyday' situations. The research I quote was attempting to culture viable, infective, quantities of the virus from a less contaminated (i.e 'everyday) surface.

There have apparently been very few cases of people catching covid from fomites (infection particles on surfaces)..

We're washing our hands because the government has disregarded new scientific evidence. We've only recently had much mention of the vital importance of ventilation though scientists have been saying for some time now that the principle medium of infection is from aerosols, lighter particles than droplets which can linger for a long time in unventilated spaces.

But there's a lot of good in hand washing and sanitising because it prevents bacterial infections. We should keep it up.

An article in Nature from January:

COVID-19 rarely spreads through surfaces. So why are we still deep cleaning?

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4?utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=3_nsn6445_deeplink_PID100053419&utm_content=deeplink

COVID is not transmitted by touch. We have been told that again and again, it is breathing in the infection that passes on the illness
So why are we washing our hands?
Recent research evaluated the survival of the COVID-19 virus on different surfaces and reported that the virus can remain viable for up to 72 hours on plastic and stainless steel, up to four hours on copper, and up to 24 hours on cardboard.
So the virus can easily be passed on money handled by food workers who touch the food.

Chesnut Actually yes I am, I've survived this long with it going on and am still here. I eat unpasteurised cheese, don't pay a huge amount of attention to use by dates, have two dogs and have managed to bring up 3 disgustingly healthy children. I realise that is anecdotal and not evidence but, for me, if it's not broken don't fix it. After all I caught Covid whilest wearing full PPE.
I have to wear a mask at work all day and the moment I don't have to I won't be.

At the moment I'm really interested in reading scientific evidence about gut bacteria and the immune system, a huge amount of research has been done in the last 10 years which seems to support the avoidance of sterile environments.

Nannan2 COVID is unlikely to ever be completely eradicated, any more than HIV/AIDS has, but that this now well controlled and so will COVID be.

COVID is not transmitted by touch. We have been told that again and again, it is breathing in the infection that passes on the illness and anyway with vaccinations now being offered to 30 year olds and more and more people having had both jabs our chances of picking the disease are dramatically reduced and the probability of having it badly or dying are too small almost to calculate.

We cannot live a risk free life, you can go to extremes to avoid a disease you have been vaccinated against and be involved in a road accident tomorrow or go and see you doctor about that funny lump and find you have a terminal disease.

Take reasonable precautions and then go ahead and enjoy life at its full.

I am off for lunch out, inside, and tomorrow head of for a 3 day break by the sea, staying in a hotel, visiting lots of interesting places and eating out

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you may die.

as long as a kitchen is clean and cleaned regularly and, yes hair is tied back and the staff start the day with clean aprons, I am completely laid back about the rest.
So you're happy with staff handling money (which is proven to be filthy, and carrying millions of bacteria and viruses) and then touching the food which will soon go in your mouth?

I agree with M0nica, too.

Are there any studies which look at the possibility of contracting covid through food which has been subject to droplet contamination? I'm wondering about the outbreaks which occurred in food processing plants. I don't recall anything about a rise in infections in the public caused by eating the processed foods. Though, for all I know, studies may exist. OTH, that angle was possibly never followed up.

We do know now that the possibility of contracting covid from contaminated surfaces is vanishingly small. Attempts to culture a viable 'dose' of covid virus from contaminated surfaces have not succeeded. So the danger of infection from poor hand hygiene is probably minute. But, of course, bacterial infection is still highly likely. It would be interesting to know if the incidence of bacterial infections has dropped over the past year with the emphasis on hand hygiene. I think that the current hand sanitising regime could continue to be useful in that respect.

IMO wearing gloves is practically useless. Studies have shown that bacterial infections can be widely disseminated by touch. If someone is wearing gloves they are as likely to pass on bacterial contamination as they would be if they were bare handed, unless they put on a clean pair of gloves for every 'operation' they carry out (medical staff don't use the same pair of gloves for multiple patients) or sanitise frequently. Which they could just as easily do with bare hands.

As someone said upthread, we do have immune systems. The less we challenge them by being ultra clean, the less chance our immune system has to develop and the more likely we are to succumb to infection. This clearly doesn't apply to covid, which is an aggressive and relatively unknown quantity, but it does to the more common infections that we've lived with for years and years.

It's a question of balance, really.

MOnica exactly!

I would think it would be impractical. can you imagine rushing round a extremely hot kitchen assembling meals wearing a mask. I would think anyone in that situation would be gasping for air.

I understand the panic during COVID, but otherwise I find this obsession with extreme hygiene rather peculiar. Your body is covered with bacteria, good and bad, you would die without all the bacteria contained within the body, I do not just mean the digestive biome. The air is full of bacteria as is every surface in your house, you breathe it in with every breath. Most of this bacteria is common to all humankind.

Are you constantly hearing of people keeling over with bacterial infections as a matter of course? I don't.

Yes, there are harmful bacteria around, but for most of us our immune systems cope perfectly well with it. Those with impaired immune usually know and are advised what protection to take. An immune system which is never challenged is a weak immune system

For more harmful common ones like flu there are vaccinations. Occasionally, very occasionally, there are illnesses like COVID where we do have to go to extreme lengths to control it, but as long as a kitchen is clean and cleaned regularly and, yes hair is tied back and the staff start the day with clean aprons, I am completely laid back about the rest.

Sickness*typo

I think they should wear masks ans clean gloves even after covid, for food handling, and yes, nor handle money as well.And ill accept we are no longer in a pandemic when the sicknees/deaths from covid have stopped entirely and WHO says its completely been eradicated!

Masks do work to a certain extent, but they have to be worn properly.
Viruses don’t try to exterminate their hosts, it is not to their advantage. They mutate so as to infect as many hosts as possible without killing them.
Humankind needs sub clinical infections of many kinds, bacterial, viral, etc., to survive assaults to their immune systems.

Biscuitmuncher

*Chestnut * were not in a pandemic anymore. And if masks worked the virus would have never left China

We most definitely are in the middle of a pandemic, the Indian variant is still spreading in the UK and the world is still in the grip of it. The virus left China because people were allowed to travel and brought it with them.

I believe so. My mother used to complain about shop people blowing into and spitting on paper bags; this is no longer done, and I think food servers , after covid, know to keep all their droplets to themselves.