Dominic Cummings

Callistemon

^What I do say ( as have others) is the change of tone now from some who used to call him ‘Demonic Cummings’^ ?

Views on some GN threads were that Cummings was running the country, that the PM and other politicians were his puppets and all decisions were his, they merely did as instructed by Cummings, a dreadful, dangerous SPAD.

However, I did post on another thread that much on GN should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Views on some GN threads were that Cummings was running the country,

How many threads? Obviously you can give links to at least three threads or you would have worded that differently. Please give these. Also ensure you show the pages with a multiplicity of people as you seem to be suggesting more than one or two of these too.

It really does seem that something is getting to the Tory faithful. Of course, the views of some of them has been that Johnson was actually running the country so their faith may be shaken. Strangely the word brewery comes to mind.

leeds22

Well at least he made Bernard Castle famous.

Not so famous that people get its name right

It's Barnard Castle...

Well, many people, me included, did think that he was running the country. So, as with other things I have to hold up my hands and say I must have been wrong. I still don’t trust Cummings or his long term agenda, but I do believe what he said yesterday because it fitted in with how I felt at the time that the pandemic was being handled (or not handled). A bit like getting the right answer to something albeit arriving there by the wrong route.

Hancock = world’s expert at evasion, both in parliament and presser.

So if he had nothing to hide I would have expected him to have been totally up front. I think that I would bet money on the fact that he lied.

He won’t be got rid of very quickly.

What I do say ( as have others) is the change of tone now from some who used to call him ‘Demonic Cummings’ ?

Views on some GN threads were that Cummings was running the country, that the PM and other politicians were his puppets and all decisions were his, they merely did as instructed by Cummings, a dreadful, dangerous SPAD.

However, I did post on another thread that much on GN should be taken with a pinch of salt.

As usual posters opinions divide along party lines

I don't think so but then I don't belong to any party or vote consistently for a particular party now.

PippaZ

lemongrove

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

Just another attempt at the character assassination of those who don't hold your views. I look forward to seeing any quote that comes anywhere near upholding what you have said - or, should you not be able to produce one,we can take it you are being economical with the truth otherwise known as "being a Tory".

I have put forward some actual, well sourced facts, to support the suggestion that Matt Hancock lied. How about you put some forward for the case that says he didn't rather than endless name calling.

What a weird post.
Name calling ? Where? Character assassinations? Where?
I leave the people actually doing this inquiry to sift the facts and any evidence to come up with as near the truth as they can muster.Not strangers on Gransnet.
What I do say ( as have others) is the change of tone now from some who used to call him ‘Demonic Cummings’?
Now they think he is telling the truth!
Unless he produces evidence it’s all ‘he said’ ‘she said’.
Because he’s a strange one it’s hard to know what is truth and what is attempted revenge.

Where's my post? If I post again it may appear twice

MayBee70

One of the things that Cummings said is that the PM didn’t take the virus seriously. And Johnson is on record saying he went to a hospital and ‘shook hands with everybody’. So that, at least can’t be a lie can it?

He has been bumping elbows throughout whereas I thought that was too close a contact.
He did go to the centre where I had my vaccine a few days after and was bumping elbows.

He wouldn't have got near enough to bump mine.
?

Not all of my votes went to the Conservatives earlier this month.

I have said all along if it is proven that the PM is found guilty of any illegalities he should suffer the consequences, that goes for any MP.

I am still unconvinced that Dominic Cummings has an altruistic motive regarding his revalations In my opinion he is clearing the decks in the hope of being king maker to one of Messers Gove, Sunak or long shot Grieve

lemongrove

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

I don't believe everything DC says is gospel and I doubt if anybody else does. By all accounts he has kept many documents and photos to support his claims.

Perhaps you've forgotten that, as the architect of Brexit he is disliked by most Remainers. However if ultimately there is sufficient evidence to remove Johnson from office, I for one will be pleased.

Mmm. I see the division more along those who want the truth and those who don't care as long as they get what they want.

I have posted on this thread and do not belong to any party.
I don't always vote for the same one either so "party lines" doesn't fit. I expect there will be others in the same position.

As usual posters opinions divide along party lines. Just shows how difficult it is to have an unbiased opinion.
Greta ha ha, lies as “mistakes. I wonder if that is the same as being economical, distorting or evading the truth?

One of the things that Cummings said is that the PM didn’t take the virus seriously. And Johnson is on record saying he went to a hospital and ‘shook hands with everybody’. So that, at least can’t be a lie can it?

It seems to me that a lie is now just a mistake. And we all make mistakes, don't we?

lemongrove

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

Just another attempt at the character assassination of those who don't hold your views. I look forward to seeing any quote that comes anywhere near upholding what you have said - or, should you not be able to produce one,we can take it you are being economical with the truth otherwise known as "being a Tory".

I have put forward some actual, well sourced facts, to support the suggestion that Matt Hancock lied. How about you put some forward for the case that says he didn't rather than endless name calling.

Interesting quote : “Nothing in the world is ever completely wrong. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.” Paul Coelho

It’s going to be difficult to get anything very accurate from the statistics, I think, except that a large number of people died prematurely.

Peasblossom that is right.

Some people may die much later than the 28 days from the effects of Covid and will not be counted. Others may have died within a few days anyway but Covid hastened their death so they were counted in the statistics.

We may never know for sure and we will never know what the true figures are for many other countries too.

Let's take it that Cummings has come up with a load of lies to get revenge on Johnson. That still leaves us with a Prime Minister who was so naive that he allowed himself to be fooled into following Cummings' lead and protecting him if there were any objections. Doesn't show him in a very good light as our leader for 18 months of national emergency.

I think it speaks volumes that the Tory they chose to go on Peston last night was Robert Jenrick, already suspected of dodgy dealing, put another one being shielded by Johnson.

Whataboutery: the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

Or, those who are using actual whataboutery, not the word used to flag it up, attempting to close down a line of argument because they don't have an answer to it.

I have typed up the first part of the interview I flagged. The second part is about Care Homes and I will type it up later if I have time.

This was on the World at One, as I said.

Presenter: Will Moy is the Chief Executive of Full Fact, the independent fact-checking charity. Good afternoon.

Will Moy: Good afternoon.

P: Now we've just pulled out two of the many charges that were levelled against the Health Secretary. Can we start with PPE and we heard Matt Hancock, even, and the allegation is what he had said a year ago, but even two months ago, as we heard there, he was saying there wasn't a national shortage of PPE. Is that right?

WM: Well, it's important, I think, the stress what we don't know about what happened last year and it emphasises the importance of truth-finding institutions in government. So in finance, we have the National Audit Office and the Corona Virus Inquiry is going to be hugely important as a statutory independent inquiry. But what we can say of this at the moment is that, although there were differences between different Trusts at different times the evidence points towards the conclusion that there was a shortage of Personal Protective Equipment. According to the National Audit Office, at the peak Trusts only got a third of the aprons they needed, a quarter of the eye protection they needed, and just 11% of the gowns and coveralls they needed.

P: So what the, forgive me for interrupting, but the National Audit Office, itself, found there was a national shortage.

WM: Well, Matt Hancock claims, and this is what he said, the National Audit Office found there was never a national shortage of PPE but the NAO did not actually say that. It stopped short of saying there definitely was a national shortage but it also said, this is a quote from them: "Demand for PPE was so high in April and May that stock levels were negligible for most types of PPE. The shortages I've already named came from the NAO. In our own Freedom of Information research, we found there were particular shortages of fluid repellent gowns and a solution used to test that staff respirators fit properly having asked 106 different NHS Trusts, via FOI. So, Matt Hancock claimed that the NAO found there was never a national shortage of PPE (?) was not what they said and the NAO gave lots of examples of shortages but stopped short of saying specifically that there was a national shortage.

E&OE as always.

There is a sense of hysteria behind the unwillingness to acknowled the deaths that have occured Maybee. You would think some people are finding this fun.

This thread Maybe is for discussing Cummings and if he is lying or not, and silly comments, as you put it , are allowed whether you like it or not.
The use of the word ‘whataboutery’ on GN to try and close down another poster is well known.

lemongrove

I should think Cummings appearing to be a white knight, is something to do with the fact that posters who dislike the present government now choose to believe every word he says is gospel.?

I fear that is through frustration bubbling up.

It must be difficult when you look at the stats of Labour v Conservative v Liberals/Lib Dems who have formed UK Government’s over the last 70+ years.

What are you on about Maybee !