So masks are to become optional, do you think this is a good idea?

Santana

My mask will be off the moment that I am allowed not to wear it.
Medical situations aside, I can see little point in continuing to wear one. Huge crowds of football spectators, Wimbledon and Ascot to name but three where only officials are wearing masks.
This isn't about mask etiquette or consideration to others, it's about a return to normal life where everyone isn't terrified all the time.
It's about freedom. If you choose to remain masked, that is your choice, as it is mine not to wear one.
What's the point in the vaccination programme if it means we still have to cower under our beds. We have to get out there and live our lives surely.

It's also about my freedom to go into an enclosed space and know that everybody else is being as responsible as I am. By behaving recklessly and selfishly, some people are taking away others' freedom.

welbeck

i thought the FFP3 masks were not recommended for general use as the valve concentrates the exhalations into a plume.
so if a person is exhaling the virus, it will be more risky to others, as projected out further, like a flung spear.
dr bharat pankhania advised against them, i believe.
in specialist settings this is not a problem as everyone present will be wearing the same masks, eg in a medical facility.

FFP3 masks don't all have valves. The code refers to the filtration.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PiBfUkBpjo

I dont really understand how wearing a mask is cowering under our beds. Is wearing a seatbelt cowering?

Monica, totally agree. We all have a responsibility to look after our own health. Age we can do nothing about but being overweight or obese is something that everyone of us can change. Healthy eating and exercise combats not only the possibility of a heart attack but also diabetes etc. The people most likely to become very ill (or worse) have been the elderly (can’t change that) and next the overweight and obese. How many times did we hear the phrase “underlying health conditions “ many of these were preventable.
I am fully vaccinated, I have zero fear of contracting COVID as I am very unlikely to become seriously ill. I’m also not concerned about “long COVID either.

Certainly where I shop very few shop staff wear masks. Surely they can’t ban customers who do the same.

MissChateline I'm very surprised at this!

I'm in London and every shop worker is wearing a mask - local shops, pubs, supermarkets, department stores, etc. Of course this might all change come 19 July.

My mask will be off the moment that I am allowed not to wear it.
Medical situations aside, I can see little point in continuing to wear one. Huge crowds of football spectators, Wimbledon and Ascot to name but three where only officials are wearing masks.
This isn't about mask etiquette or consideration to others, it's about a return to normal life where everyone isn't terrified all the time.
It's about freedom. If you choose to remain masked, that is your choice, as it is mine not to wear one.
What's the point in the vaccination programme if it means we still have to cower under our beds. We have to get out there and live our lives surely.

Yes, the time scale on the study was short and it is now 15 months since it was made. Are there any more uptodate figures?

However the fugures did not show retail workers to be particularly endangered, but most shops did take very strict and sensible precautions to protect their workers.

The standard vaccines are all protective against the Delta varient. Most of the people getting the disease and being admitted to hospital are unvaccinated. If you have had the vaccine you have very little to worry about.

DH was in hospital for 8 weeks during the build up to wave 2, during that time he picked up a hospital acquired infection, not COVID, which led to extensive extra surgery and he came very close to death. DD nearly died because her GPs were running round like headless chickens in the period running up to the first lockdown. and failed to do a blood test they should have done.

I am fully vaccinated, I am more likely to have a heart attack than I am to be seriously ill or die from COVID. This applies to most of us, yet many people are fat, unfit and eating an unhealthy diet that puts them in real danger of a heart attack without doing anything about it, yet are worried about the much more remote chance that, after vaccination, they might get COVID.

I’m not happy about the change in policy on mask wearing. Travelling on public transport is a nightmare already with non mask wearers, and I’ve had friend after friend test positive from the virus over the past fortnight that have been double vaccinated.

growstuff where did you get your masks from? I think I shall have to do the same as you.

This is still a pandemic. I personally will continue to wear a mask inside in places such as supermarkets, shops and on public transport or in a taxi. It just feels a sensible precaution given the Delta variants are highly contagious and it also feels like good manners. While I recognise there are many who hate wearing masks, there are also others who are frightened. I think we are taking a risky path given some people are still dying. If you have had a relative needing hospital care over the last year, as I have (not because of Covid) you will see the last thing any hospital needs is even just one Covid patient.

the timescale in that study is quite short though

i thought the FFP3 masks were not recommended for general use as the valve concentrates the exhalations into a plume.
so if a person is exhaling the virus, it will be more risky to others, as projected out further, like a flung spear.
dr bharat pankhania advised against them, i believe.
in specialist settings this is not a problem as everyone present will be wearing the same masks, eg in a medical facility.

Baggs

JaneJudge

if you work in a shop or supermarket that choice is taken anyway, they are low paid and have no choice.

This is an important point but I have yet to see any statistics about the percentage of shop workers who have even contracted Covid., never mind been hospitalised or who died from it. I think there would have been a media noise about shop worker infections if the numbers had been in any way worthy of attention. No?

Please correct my ignorance if such (well backed up) information exists.

there is some information here

I disagree with Robert Jenrick when he says that people can use their discretion about mask wearing. I wear my mask to protect you…you’re wearing yours to protect me. If you happen to be vulnerable for whatever reason - and we can’t know exactly what level of protection we have as individuals, just the average - then you’re potentially not safe to be among non-mask wearers happily exercising their “discretion”.

And what happens in a few months when we may be in need of a booster jab, or a resistant variant appears?

JaneJudge

if you work in a shop or supermarket that choice is taken anyway, they are low paid and have no choice.

This is an important point but I have yet to see any statistics about the percentage of shop workers who have even contracted Covid., never mind been hospitalised or who died from it. I think there would have been a media noise about shop worker infections if the numbers had been in any way worthy of attention. No?

Please correct my ignorance if such (well backed up) information exists.

Delta variant is running wild here so with no social distancing and no masks I will not be going anywhere near shops, cafes. etc.
It’s a real shame that masks don’t protect the wearer. Looking into ffp3 as suggested above for when I do have to go to places inside.

MissChateline

Hetty58 ..I’m sure you are right. But I’m not convinced that it would be practical to ban everyone from shops just for not wearing a mask when it isn’t a legal requirement. I’m Presuming that most shops will keep the screens and the staff are able to wear masks should they wish.
Certainly where I shop very few shop staff wear masks. Surely they can’t ban customers who do the same.

Yes, they can. They can refuse to have anybody they want in their shops.

Incidentally, hardly anywhere in the country now has an incidence rate below 100 in a 100,000, which isn't even that low. Many places are over 500, which means that 1 in 200 people is infected. Nowhere has a rate in single figures, which several did just a few weeks ago. To put that into context, Germany is reporting 4 infections per 100,000. Even accounting for different ways of testing and collecting data, that's a huge difference. Thankfully, vaccinations mean that there are very few hospitalisations and deaths.

Hetty58 ..I’m sure you are right. But I’m not convinced that it would be practical to ban everyone from shops just for not wearing a mask when it isn’t a legal requirement. I’m Presuming that most shops will keep the screens and the staff are able to wear masks should they wish.
Certainly where I shop very few shop staff wear masks. Surely they can’t ban customers who do the same.

I have a box of FFP3 masks, which I shall be wearing if most people give up wearing masks. Up to now, I haven't used them because they're expensive and I've felt comfortable wearing washable ones with filters, which reduce transmission from me to others. However, if most people aren't bothering to stop themselves transmitting infection, I feel I need to protect myself better, which is what FFP3 masks do. Incidentally, FFP3 masks are standard in Germany.

aggie, yes, the dramatic fall in flu cases was one little silver lining in this miserable situation!

MissChateline, discrimination is legally 'the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability'.

A shop is private property, not public space, therefore refusing entry (or service) is fine - in the same way that you could refuse entry to your home.

Shops ban shoplifters and vandals - and especially anyone who threatens or presents a risk to their staff, all the time.

I’ve just ordered more washable masks , I’ll keep wearing them , might stop me getting Flu as well as Covid

I would have thought that refusing to serve a customer who wasn’t wearing a mask when it is not a legal requirement might well be discrimination.
I have a problem with a local shop who refuses to take cash. He says that this is to prevent contamination from the notes and coins. The fact that he has abysmal ventilation in the shop and he is happy to serve customers with their masks dangling all over the place is neither here nor there. I am aware that he is not obligated to accept cash but I have pointed out that he is losing certainly my custom and that if others. So a shop that didn’t allow me in without a mask would lose a lot of customers.

JaneJudge Nowhere did I suggest that I would be non-mask wearing regardless of what those around me may want.

I certainly make my own judgements, but like so many things in life, like other people, whatever I do I try to do with due consideration for other people around me and your post suggested that I and other's like me don't and you do not have any right to make that judgement unless you can bring evidence to prove that I do lack consideration for others.

I have always found that most people I meet in life are thoughtful and considerate, of course not everybody, but certainly the majority. I think you are unfortunate to have found it different.

MissChateline, as I understand it, a shopkeeper can refuse to serve somebody for any reason - if it's logical and not purely discrimination.