Disconnect with the data.

Agree with the BMA. Govt. are shooting themselves in the foot as many will lose trust and confidence in reopening if they haven't already.

herd immunity by another name.

It is weird when watching Corrie, as I did last night, when a character, Gail, leaves for an extended holiday, and all her immediate family stand in a socially distanced way to bid her goodbye. Obviously I understand the reason for this, but it does stretch credibility somewhat. What is also weird is that she decided to go half way round the world, with only a day to prepare. To pack, get vaccines, visa, etc! Only in the soaps

So I guess all the soaps and dramas will now include a positive outbreak of passionate embraces…..

After a little ponder whilst getting ready for work I feel that I will feel that "Freedom Day" is meaningful when those who are able to protect themselves through the financial stability or good working terms and conditions " just get on with it". I look forward to seeing soaps/ dramas/ news programmes and the Houses of Parliament being business as usual!

I have read many of the threads on Covid but not commented. I know longer know what to think.! As someone who was high risk I will be eternally grateful for vaccine.
At the moment I find it hard to know what to think. The headlines today as I turned on news-covid admissions rising including a young man of 38 whi had been very ill, admittedly hed not been vaccinated. This was followed by the rather irritating Simon Calder celebrating fact those that are vaccinated can go on holiday!
It feels more uncertain than last summer very much a case of yes but no but!
I am concerned about a variant that develops from increase in cases that is resistant to the vaccine.
I think we should bear in mind those that do not have the option to keep themselves safe either due jobs they do,their age or the vaccine not being as effective for them. I genuinely doubt the government give two hoots about such people and I have zero trust in their capability.

There is already a new variant in the UK, known as the Lambda variant.

www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/lambda-variant

It seems to me that this government is a danger not just to its citizens but to the whole world.

A high infection rate, which they admit now is ahead of us, in a partially vaccinated population is the perfect breeding ground for mutations which of course will spread around the world.

Interesting article:

inews.co.uk/news/politics/ministers-ditched-face-masks-after-being-warned-the-economy-would-lose-billions-1089589?ito=twitter_share_article-top

So why not compromise?

Nobody needs to go to a sporting event or concert. If people attending don't want to wear a mask, so be it - hopefully, they would be responsible about the people with whom they're in contact.

However, people do need to use public transport, go shopping, go to school or (in some cases) work in enclosed spaces. Why not continue to mandate them in these settings?

MissAdventure

I totally agree.
It seems as if the minute we're teetering on the edge of getting on top of it, the restrictions are totally lifted.

It's bonkers.

Last March, I don't think many people seriously believed we would have a vaccination programme, so that's a massive bonus and shouldn't be underestimated.

Nevertheless, the government is now planning not to vaccinate millions of people, apart from those who have chosen not to be vaccinated, those who can't be and those for whom the vaccine doesn't work. It cannot be right to abandon them to some crazy notion of herd immunity acquired by infection because we now know that a significant percentage (varying on age) of people infected with Covid will have long-term after effects. At the moment, we simply don't know how long they will last. In some cases, they are profound and could last a lifetime. Is that a risk really worth taking? In any case, most infections cause people's lives to be disrupted, even if they do recover fully, which isn't positive for the "economy" or "normal life".

There has to be another tool in the armoury.

The most effective way to stop infection is, of course, to break the chain of transmission, but in reality that can't be complete. It can, however, be partial (mask wearing, safe distance, etc etc). It need not last forever and another wave isn't inevitable, if we move ahead and vaccinate all over 12 year olds. It's estimated that about 85% of the total population needs to be vaccinated and that is achievable by the end of this year (maybe sooner).

Meanwhile, mitigations would keep people much safer and allow society to open up, which is what people are so desperate to happen.

I thought that too, Summerlove.
I suppose, last March, we thought we would tackle it and then it would all be over.
Now, we realise it's going to go on and on.
It does also look like the rate of deaths or serious illness will be much less than last year, thanks to immunisation.

I hope that mask-wearing will not be abandoned, although many on here and on MN are very much hoping it will.

AGAA4

They are pinning their hopes on summer weather and children being on holiday to restrict the spread of covid but are expecting 1000 cases a day by August.
It is a risk and BJ has said people will die but many feel that they can't endure restrictions any longer.
I will still be taking care and assessing my own risk.

Interesting that it’s now deemed “acceptable” that people will die, vs March 2020 when people were so angry with him for saying that, and planning to stay open for herd immunity.

That people (general) are too tired of restrictions, so people dying isn’t as horrible.

This isn’t an attack on you, just a thought passing through.

Katie59

There comes a time now that vaccination gives a good level of protection to get back to normal and treat Covid like an influenza.
If you are ill then stay at home until you have recovered, those that want to protect themselves can wear masks, social distance or isolate. There are going to be infections but the serious illness is now much less likely

Yes, this.

Buy a copy?

I don't really use the library, but thanks anyway.

growstuff try the print edition, free if you go to your local public library. My friend says that the data is comprehensive and well-presented. I'm no numbers person, but I do trust her brains.

I totally agree.
It seems as if the minute we're teetering on the edge of getting on top of it, the restrictions are totally lifted.

Unfortunately, the FT is behind a paywall. What kind of data does it provide? How is it different from data from official sources?

A switched-on friend of mine says that the data provided by the Financial Times is the most reliable.

Apparently, the final decision is being made on 12th July. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there's a partial U turn. The government can then tell its backbenchers it did its best and it really wants to lift all restrictions, but the data just don't allow it.

I don't think anybody is really disputing that there should be a relaxation of restrictions, not that the UK as a whole has ever had anything like the lockdown of other countries - and certainly not now.

What the majority of people (according to two polls) are saying is that some mitigations (eg face coverings in enclosed spaces) should be kept.

My personal biggest concern is for schools, where there has been no attempt at mitigation and it seems increasingly unlikely that under 18s will be vaccinated.

I do think that masks should be compulsory in certain circumstances eg public transport, Luckygirl where people are of necessity in a very confined space.

However, I think that generally, with the vaccination programme well under way, it is time for some relaxation of rules.

Rising infections are not resulting in large numbers of hospitalisations.
How long immunity will last from vaccinations or having Covid and recovering we don't yet know.

The virus will be with us for a very long time, will mutate and we will have to adapt too but get back to some kind of normal life.

muffinthemoo I fear your diagram is spot on.

When it comes to covid and mask, their prime aim and function is to protect others: people like bus drivers in busy cities, who are now being thrown under a bus - they will spend all day with virus-carrying people all around them. The government has no right to put them at this risk. They have done a great job of keeping people moving and now they are being sold down the river. No wonder the unions are not happy.