Oxford and Warwick universities- another example of bringing out the worst in so many areas

Remember that many overseas students are no longer enrolled and paying fees because of Covid restrictions. The universities have to make money somewhere because the government really doesn’t help these days, at least they don’t where we live. My husband used to lecture at Warwick back in the day along with Germs Greer and even then they were short of cash. He moved to Australia and often commented how the mass lectures were not the best, much better to have smaller groups where the students were more engaged and could ask questions freely. They now repeat all the lectures online anyway, so what’s the difference?

I understand Jane because obviously my son was at university some years ago, and there was no Covid then. I don’t know how Oxford University in general, or my son’s former college have coped with their students during Covid. I imagine that the tutorials could be done via zoom, as that would allow for the same sort of teaching as my son experienced. But not all universities teach in the way that Oxford teach, and so I don’t know how they’ve coped. I feel so sorry for students caught up in this situation, and also for our children, who have had disrupted schooling for two years now.

I think the issue is though maddyone, with it all being online I suspect those that might need the most help or support just don't have access or the confidence to access what support they need. I've posted about one of my sons before who is at uni. He didn't have a very easy A level experience and then went off to uni (yes he was on site throughout the pandemic spreading his germs) and did online tutorials and some unsupervised lab work. When he got home he was convinced he had failed the year because he hasn't had any (I suppose) personal 1:1 input off anyone. He has obviously been getting his % grades but not any sort of guidance. Lots of his friends from school dropped out of their courses. I don't know how usual that is.

Tbh I don't care about the universities renting out their spaces. Maybe if they could do it more they could reduce costs in other areas...

At Oxford university (St John’s College anyway) students were not required to go to lectures, they were optional. This was when my son was there, 1997 - 2000 if I remember rightly. They were not allowed to miss tutorials though, sometimes one to one, other times two or three students and professor. They were required to have read certain documents/cases/ books in advance, or written an essay in advance, and be prepared to discuss them at this tutorial.

The last time I commented on students and lecture halls I was shot down - but basically the lecture hall is the easiest part of university education to do online anyway. As Maddyone says, the 1-1 tutorials and small group seminars are what really makes the education work. The going-online of lectures is frankly harder for the staff than the students. Giving a lecture to a microscopic group or in an empty space is quite challenging!

So back to the hall hire... I'd say why not? It reduces costs and helps prevent redundancies. All good news for students. Also, it's been going on forever. I remember corporate events at my university in term time as far back as 1976.

I wonder if there are any figures as to how many students dropped out over the last 2 years compared to earlier years?

I used to live near Warwick University they have always hired out space for corporate & community events in the holidays and term time in a few different places on the campus.

A lot happened at the University Arts Centre which hosted a full programme of theatre, music & craft events that will have limited interest this year. Local schools had joint gathering there too.

I think it's a great use of unbooked space.

My son went to Oxford to study Law, or Jurisprudence as they like to call it. Almost all of his teaching was done in very small groups of two or three students with one professor. He did attend lectures but it was rare. Given this method of teaching and learning there is less need for large halls/rooms. They probably think that distance learning and small group teaching is sufficient at this time, as it is their usual mode of teaching anyway.
I can’t say anything about Warwick as I don’t know anything about it.

Never experienced the Lammas Fair as it was October by the time we students generally appeared.

I used to live in York, can't say that I noticed that the city was any busier during term time despite there being two universities. There were always thousands of tourists!My DGD1 starts at York university next term following in the footsteps of her father and grandfather.

St Andrews is indeed the closest town to where I live. StA Uni is not where I worked.

It was Lammas Fair last week, you couldn't move for tourists and locals enjoying the rides. Few Americans this year.

Friends who live in StA don't go into the town centre when the students are there during term time (semester?) because it's too busy. I've yet to meet an undergraduate who didn't want to enjoy the life of the town in which they have chosen to study, StA, Oxford, or any other.

I’m sorry Alegrias or some reason I thought you were connected with or living in St Andrews.
In my day the town was more likely to be hoaching with golfers or American tourists.
It was however a derogatory and unfortunate depiction of all undergraduates.

Academics and accountants don't mix well. That is why educational establishments have professors and lecturers as a separate entity to bursars and finance managers. The latter have to make money for the former to operate. Hard, unpopular decisions have to be taken.

And for somebody living and working (I assume ) in a university town to reduce the student population to tens or thousands of people turning up in a city/town, partying till dawn night after night and mixing with the locals for months on end is, Alegrias both small minded and unworthy of you.

Ah, the perils of assumptions.....

Don't work any more, I'm retired.
I live in a small town with no University.
I worked in Universities for several years, although not as long as DH.

Students don't turn up in an orderly manner and file politely into lecture rooms then disappear obediently into their individual rooms for the remainder of the day. The nearest Uni town to where I live is hoaching with students day and night, social distancing has been abandoned for months and the town was a local hotspot for cases on several occasions.

Speaking the truth is not small minded.

And how exactly do you think they can raise money to keep going? It’s not new. It’s fine. It doesn’t interfere with students as the lecturers (or their assistants) hire all the space well 8n advance for lectures. The Unis fill the remaining space that’s all. They are businesses these days not ivory towers.

This ‘news story’ looks like lazy gutter press journalism to me. I’m sure it can’t be doing The Permanently Outraged’s blood pressure any good

I wonder who you are designating “ The Permanently Outraged” ?
My blood pressure is fine, thank you, even in the face of such a personally offensive post.

Universities have to follow government guidelines. UCLan are certainly preparing to resume teaching on campus at the start of the next academic year, and I should imagine this will be the case elsewhere too.

This ‘news story’ looks like lazy gutter press journalism to me. I’m sure it can’t be doing The Permanently Outraged’s blood pressure any good.

Blossoming

Look on any university’s website and you’ll probably find they’re all doing the same. Liverpool, Manchester Metropolitan and UCLan are still renting out space, they do it whether students are there or not and have been doing it for years.

But they haven’t been obliging students to undertake their (expensive) learning via Zoom.
That is my point - not that universities should top up their income in the vacs, but that if a lecture space is deemed safe for a corporate event, it is safe for student use.
And for somebody living and working (I assume ) in a university town to reduce the student population to
tens or thousands of people turning up in a city/town, partying till dawn night after night and mixing with the locals for months on end is, Alegrias both small minded and unworthy of you. .

The college I worked for hired out its facilities to local emergency services during both lockdowns. A good way of making money for them which hopefully has gone some way to reducing the number of redundancies it made this year.

Having said that, I believe Uni students should be in just as FE students, and some HE students are.

While I feel very sorry for the way in which students have been treated, in this case the university is renting out the building and the facilities, not any staff. Blossoming is right it has always happened and universities have to put their assets to good use in the barren months.
The hirer is responsible for pretty much everything.

The rooms are advertised on the university’s website as available to corporate clients during the academic year, in addition to holidays.

That is the relevant point.

Casdon

All universities rent out rooms for corporate events whether the students are in or not, it’s part of their funding strategies. I’m sure if you checked, all the other universities are doing the same.

We know that but surely the priority during term time should be getting students back and attending lectures.

Look on any university’s website and you’ll probably find they’re all doing the same. Liverpool, Manchester Metropolitan and UCLan are still renting out space, they do it whether students are there or not and have been doing it for years.

I’m at that stage now when I wonder, what, if anything will shock or surprise me anymore. ?

All universities rent out rooms for corporate events whether the students are in or not, it’s part of their funding strategies. I’m sure if you checked, all the other universities are doing the same.