The Autumn Spike?

Allerdale in Cumbria now has the highest cases of Covid in the country. The lunchtime news reported that 1 in 25 school children are testing positive for Covid. Some heads have made their own minds up and the children are now wearing masks, the children that were interviewed said they would rather wear a mask than be at home.
I do have sympathy for people who would choose to wear a mask but can't for medical reasons it must be a terrible worry and for people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. The rest of us should shield them and do our bit by wearing masks and getting vaccinated.
Also, a very bad example was set by the labour party congress.

Gagajo, I agree with your last post about wearing face masks. I have a lung conditions and some breathing problems but I am still able to wear a mask.

We saw a clip, on the news, of Keir Starmer addressing the Labour Party conference. Hardly any of the delegates were wearing masks. Not setting a very good example.

New case numbers daily remain at over 30K. The change is in numbers on life support. For your own area move this interactive map - it runs about 5 days in arrear. coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/cases

growstuff

What's your issue with the FDA document ayse?

Not an issue. I was trying to compare what was being said on the conspiracy page to all the statistics given re Covid vaccine and their effects on 12-15 year olds. I find statistics like these rather complicated to unravel and to understand the details. Science is not my strong point so any help is welcome. (I’m not being sarcastic, just in case it looked as if I was)

GagaJo

MayBee70

If only children had been vaccinated in the school holidays and instead of freedom day people had continued to wear masks and socially distance themselves. ie the common sense approach

Yep, totally agree MayBee70. If my radgie 3 year old grandson can wear a mask without murmer, I REALLY don't know why the members of the population without breathing issues can't put them on. Such an easy fix.

As is the totally free vaccine.

The Director of public health for Cumbria was on T.V on Tuesday saying certain parts of Cumbria have the highest Covid rate in England. Mainly caused by the teenagers who have returned to school.
He said that some Heads were considering bringing back mask-wearing and social distancing in school, also infected children should home isolate. If I understood right what he appeared to want is the government to give the right to any Education authority or school in these areas to apply these measures when needed.

I agree with the above quote,we all want to cry "Freedom", but untill the uptake of the vaxine is almost 100% including school children this will never happen.
Our parents and grandparents eradicated Polio from this country by getting us vacinated as school children. Measles was almost untill people stopped taking up the MMR .
If the vacine is there why not use it and stop listening to unproven rumours and scaremongering which is all it is.

Thanks growstuff I thought we were usually on the same page. ?
My frustration is that I have followed all the research, evaluation, and implementation of vaccination for 12-17 here in France (as my son has in Spain), which started in early June and has thus far led to a smooth return to school in both countries.
I then saw my granddaughter in England return to school with an immediate fast increase in cases and what felt like an inevitable infection. She is now unwell with Covid and off school at the start of her GCSE year.
It just seems so unnecessary.

MayBee70

If only children had been vaccinated in the school holidays and instead of freedom day people had continued to wear masks and socially distance themselves. ie the common sense approach

Yep, totally agree MayBee70. If my radgie 3 year old grandson can wear a mask without murmer, I REALLY don't know why the members of the population without breathing issues can't put them on. Such an easy fix.

As is the totally free vaccine.

12-15 year old are now getting vaccinated. Through schools. My 17 Yr old DGS is having g difficulty getting his be ause his Mum works d can't get him to a walkin clinic.

I was on a train from Leeds to London last Sunday and I was horrified at how crowded the train was also the few people who wore masks ?

Shops in my area are actively encouraging people to wear masks while in them. I will continue wearing one....

Masks are still to be used here in N.I, but I nipped out this morning and a lot weren't wearing masks. I noticed it was mostly young people in their 20s& 30s, young mothers with toddlers. I don't know what more can be done to encourage people to help stop the spread of this virus. Its still rampant over here, hospitals are full, but yet people seem to be going about like its disappeared. Dear help anyone that's waiting for an operation, it must be awful for them watching others not giving a damn.

What's your issue with the FDA document ayse?

Mamie

No it is not the DfE's decision growsruff and I did not say it was.
When you make policy you identify who needs to be involved, you task them with the relevant investigations and you have a schedule for reporting, evaluating and implementing. That is the role of government. You don't wait for one group to sort out their ideas and then ask someone else.

I agree with you. I've been going on about vaccinating teenagers for ages, so I've been following what's been going on. You're right that Gavin Williamson should have been exerting pressure every minute of the day - and I bet he wasn't. I'm still wondering how on earth he lasted so long.

I think I came across too negative in my posts, but I was trying to explain that there are procedures which needed to be followed. It's not just a case of deciding to vaccinate one group and starting the next day. I'm glad the procedures were followed, even if I also think they should have been hurried up.

growstuff

Your second link is to a conspiracy website.

But not to the FDA document that they linked to that I opened to check. That’s why I asked if there was a statistician here to unravel it.
This is the FDA doc. www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

I’ve spent hours reading actual documents that are referred to on these sort of web pages. They always quote out of context and link unrelated documents together to form a point of view. That’s why they are so cleaver at recruiting. Real documents within rubbish.

You can, of course, also study the evidence and policies of countries who are further along than you are.

No it is not the DfE's decision growsruff and I did not say it was.
When you make policy you identify who needs to be involved, you task them with the relevant investigations and you have a schedule for reporting, evaluating and implementing. That is the role of government. You don't wait for one group to sort out their ideas and then ask someone else.

growstuff

Yes, there have been long-term studies ayse - or, at least, as long-term as they can be, given this is a novel virus.

I did read the link you posted previously.

The balance is still in favour of vaccinating children rather than allowing them to risk the dangers of infection.

I’m presuming we are talking about 12-15 year olds? I was under the impression that this is underway right now. Like many others, I fail to understand that if this was the government plan, why it wasn’t started in the school holidays. Lack of planning, perhaps?

I recognise my fears may be somewhat influenced by my anti-v daughter but we hear so little scientific discussion, debating these issues on mainstream media. I’d love to be able to hear these and many other issues debated by experts with opposing views. Instead we now rely on social media or mainstream news that has already taken a position.

Your second link is to a conspiracy website.

Yes, there have been long-term studies ayse - or, at least, as long-term as they can be, given this is a novel virus.

I did read the link you posted previously.

The balance is still in favour of vaccinating children rather than allowing them to risk the dangers of infection.

growstuff

ayse If your DH's heart murmur, insulin injections and breathlessness are after effects of Covid, I don't really understand why you wouldn't do everything you can to reduce your own risk of being seriously affected.

That’s why I’m reconsidering having the booster as I’ve already explained. I would prefer the AZ vaccine as it’s a question of mistrust of Pfizer due to their appalling record in the USA.

growstuff

ayse I think I also read somewhere that natural immunity is more effective, although I have no idea if it's true or how much research has been done.

However, natural immunity means being infected and we know that infection is more dangerous (even for young people) than vaccination. Infection also means disruption such as having to miss school or work.

So, natural immunity might be more effective, but it's a risky path to take.

See the link I posted to above. It seems that vaccine may be more effective, according to this paper.

I still have doubts about giving this vaccine to under 15s as there are no long term studies, nor can there be atm.

I’m not sure about the article below but it does provide a link to an FDA document regarding the results of testing 12-15 year olds and adverse reactions. If there’s a statistician here perhaps they could throw some light on this?

rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/06/02/86-of-children-suffered-an-adverse-reaction-to-the-pfizer-covid-vaccine-in-clinical-trial/

Mamie

As a former educational professional involved in policy making, it sounds to me as if the voice of of the DfE was not strong enough. Given the performance of the former SoS I am not surprised.

It wasn't the DfE's decision. It was the decision of the various CMOs of the NHSs.

Mamie

Yes sorry "health grounds" was too narrow a summary on my part.
Still makes it a government failure though!

Not so sure. I'm not usually hesitant about criticising the government , but the JCVI is independent (at least nominally) and mustn't be influenced by government. I guess the government should have given them a kick up the backside and told them to hurry up, but (as I wrote before) it included somebody who was very much against vaccinating children. I suspect some pressure might have been applied to get him to leave before a decision was announced.

As a former educational professional involved in policy making, it sounds to me as if the voice of of the DfE was not strong enough. Given the performance of the former SoS I am not surprised.