The Autumn Spike?

ayse If your DH's heart murmur, insulin injections and breathlessness are after effects of Covid, I don't really understand why you wouldn't do everything you can to reduce your own risk of being seriously affected.

Yes sorry "health grounds" was too narrow a summary on my part.
Still makes it a government failure though!

I don't know why the JCVI took so long to make up its mind. I think the government would have been foolish to go ahead without waiting for the decision. I suspect there might have been some behind the scenes politics, but I can't prove that. Before the decision was made one member of the JCVI was dismissed/resigned (not sure). He was strongly against vaccinating children and had appeared in a couple of interviews. It could be that it was all connected. I think it all put the CMOs in a difficult position.

MaizieD,
My DH now has a heart murmur together with insulin injections and shortness of breath

The JVCI did not think there was any substantial benefit to children being vaccinated in this case.

I’m certainly reconsidering whether to have the booster as my DD is concerned about my health.

I wish that masks were mandatory on public transport just now as this is my main means of transport.

Have just found this re immunity that supports your view

www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/covid-immunity-natural-infection-vaccine

No, the JCVI didn't refuse it on health grounds. Their statement said that for 10-15 year olds, the risk between being infected and side effects of vaccination were almost equal, with a marginal advantage for being vaccinated - not enough for them to recommend amass vaccination programme.

Apart from some criticisms of their methodology, they didn't take Long Covid into account or the social implications of missing school.

Yes overall I agree growstuff. However, the spin (and opinion on here) has been that the JCVI refused it on health grounds so the vaccinations did not happen.
It sounds like a government policy failure to me.
It was up to the government to consider all factors and make a decision in a timely and measured fashion. As a result three months have been lost and the start of the school year disrupted.

ayse I think I also read somewhere that natural immunity is more effective, although I have no idea if it's true or how much research has been done.

However, natural immunity means being infected and we know that infection is more dangerous (even for young people) than vaccination. Infection also means disruption such as having to miss school or work.

So, natural immunity might be more effective, but it's a risky path to take.

Mamie

I would have thought the original Government briefing to the JCVI should have included a requirement to consider the overall impact on children's education rather than just health issues. If that had been done sooner rather than later it might have minimised disruption. Of course mask wearing and proper ventilation in schools would have helped too. Plenty of other countries had worked this out and got it in place.

That's not the role of the JCVI - and shouldn't be. It only considers medical issues. If it started considering social and political issues, it could be accused of being partisan by being influenced by lobbying.

MaizieD

^I understand that anti-bodies built by the body tend to work better than those produced by vaccines^

ayse, you are usually a sensible poster, but this is nonsense. The vaccine stimulates the body to produce antibodies. There is no difference between vaccine induced and infection induced antibodies.

There is, a question over how long antibodies persist. Which is why we're getting boosters.

Still horrified at how people airily dismiss Long Covid. It can happen even after seemingly mild infections

I suggest watching the video and reading the comments on this thread.

mobile.twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1442555369427984390

My DH has long Covid so I wouldn’t dream of dismissing it. It’s made his life a misery. The point I’m making is that children and non-Vaccers, if they have Covid have a natural immunity protects the. I can’t remember now where I read that natural immunity was more effective.

I’ll certainly watch the link you posted and I have read this thread. Thank you for the link

Mamie

Obviously the Independent got it wrong.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-vaccine-teenagers-rejected-jcvi-b1913850.html

Yes, yes they did.

Mamie

I would have thought the original Government briefing to the JCVI should have included a requirement to consider the overall impact on children's education rather than just health issues. If that had been done sooner rather than later it might have minimised disruption. Of course mask wearing and proper ventilation in schools would have helped too. Plenty of other countries had worked this out and got it in place.

I would have thought the original Government briefing to the JCVI should have included a requirement to consider the overall impact on children's education rather than just health issues.

That is not in the JCVI's remit. Ever.

Obviously the Independent got it wrong.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-vaccine-teenagers-rejected-jcvi-b1913850.html

So many people are acting as if Covid never existed. Perhaps they have had enough of masks, sanitising and restrictions or have decided to live alongside it as we do with colds and flu. Personally I wear a mask when I need to, sanitise and wash my hands regularly and hope for the best.

I understand that anti-bodies built by the body tend to work better than those produced by vaccines

ayse, you are usually a sensible poster, but this is nonsense. The vaccine stimulates the body to produce antibodies. There is no difference between vaccine induced and infection induced antibodies.

There is, a question over how long antibodies persist. Which is why we're getting boosters.

Still horrified at how people airily dismiss Long Covid. It can happen even after seemingly mild infections

I suggest watching the video and reading the comments on this thread.

mobile.twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1442555369427984390

I would have thought the original Government briefing to the JCVI should have included a requirement to consider the overall impact on children's education rather than just health issues. If that had been done sooner rather than later it might have minimised disruption. Of course mask wearing and proper ventilation in schools would have helped too. Plenty of other countries had worked this out and got it in place.

The government most certainly did not overrule the JCVI.

The JCVI decided that the benefits of vaccinating children 12-15 was marginal, but certainly not dangerous. However they did not recommend a universal vaccination program for this reason. They stated that they were not in a position to comment on the societal benefits of a mass vaccination program and suggested that the governments of all 4 nations in the UK should refer to the CMOs for that decision.

The CMOs decided to recommend a mass vaccination program.

With so much vaccine hesitancy around it is very important that there are no rumours about the government overruling or going against the medical authorities' recommendations.

I thought that the Government overruled the JVCI and asked them to look again because the original advice had not taken sufficient account of disruption to education?

The JCVI were against vacination of children so the government had to go against this recommendation
Now with adult vacinations they followed the recommendations of the JVVI so a decision had to be made

Totally agree MayBee70. Loads of cases in my GD's school and a large number of those in Year 11 (GCSE). My GD has it and is too unwell to continue with school work. Both parents (fully vaccinated) have it, with mild symptoms, but still inevitable disruption to their work.
Here in France vast majority 12-17 year olds vaccinated before start of term, masks worn in school, very few cases. The same in Spain where my other grandchildren are at school.
In my opinion England has got this wrong.

For weeks UK death rate and hospital numbers have been appalling compared to France, Spain, Italy and Germany.
Also many countries have higher vas percentage of population.
They also have stricter measures.
UK just ignores this and accepts the policy of the government to infect everyone.
Not great if you are trying to protect vulnerable relatives.

Of course children should have been vaccinated in the summer holidays. Why weren’t they? Who knows. Could have been government dithering as usual.

If only children had been vaccinated in the school holidays and instead of freedom day people had continued to wear masks and socially distance themselves. ie the common sense approach

There are still many going into hospital and helping to cause a backlog for other conditions that need treating. So why don’t people do everything they can to stop it spreading. And yes I have been vaccinated but if I get it there is a huge chance I will end up in hospital. There are still 30, 000 people a day still getting it for goodness sake why.

Covid cases among children and YP are sky high here with schools having to close, partly because of the children themselves, and partly because of staff isolating because their own children are ill. One school had 300 cases - a small rural comprehensive. About half of the students.

What is clear is that the vaccine has been working in preventing spread amongst older people who have the highest vaccine uptake.

But we don't have to live with anything. If there were a will, Covid be stamped out. FWIW Many many more people are even now suffering from Long Covid than suffer from ME.