The Autumn Spike?

Kali2

In France, Switzerland, Italy- you have to have Covid vaccination to go anywhere, restaurants, theatre, cinema, etc- and masks are strictly worn by all in shops and anywhere crowded, even outside.

I believe FFP2 respirators are compulsory in Germany. There are still some restrictions and people are required to have proof of vaccination or a negative test to enter certain places.

In France, Switzerland, Italy- you have to have Covid vaccination to go anywhere, restaurants, theatre, cinema, etc- and masks are strictly worn by all in shops and anywhere crowded, even outside.

MayBee70

I think one of the first things some eastern countries did was ventilate buildings: open windows etc. But we didn’t seem to follow what countries that were controlling the virus well appeared to be doing.

We waved some Union Jacks at it and hoped the little blighter would be intimidated.

I think one of the first things some eastern countries did was ventilate buildings: open windows etc. But we didn’t seem to follow what countries that were controlling the virus well appeared to be doing.

Just to mention again - in the UK ventilation doesn't get much of a look-in, in my experience.
Is that perhaps different in some other countries?

Europe is a big place. In France, Italy and Germany (for instance) the Stringency Index is higher than here, i.e. their restrictions are tighter than ours. In Spain, they're about the same, and cases per million in Spain are below 40. Netherlands, all of Scandinavia, Belgium, Portugal....all more or less equivalent to or less strict than us, all with lower infection rates. (all from a link in the New Stateman article)

Case rates in Scotland are about 300 per million. Face masks are compulsory and always have been.

Looks like hands space face ventilation might not be the simple answer everyone might like to think.

www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2021/10/uk-covid-19-cases-remain-the-highest-of-any-major-european-country

The UK has the highest number of cases of any major European country.

500 cases per million, compared to under 100 cases in Spain, Germany and France.

In Europe masks are compulsory in hairdressers, restaurants and transport. In France covid passports have been extended to everyone aged 12 and over who want to use public transport, eat in restaurants or visit hospitals. If masks aren’t worn on public transport a gendarme will “have a word”, unlike in London.

Whereas in the UK the message from government appears to be “the pandemic is over”. Why are we always behind in this pandemic?

MayBee70

We have the highest infection rate in Western Europe and, with it, the highest death rate. All we needed to do was continue with hands face space ventilate which is what other European countries have done. Why is there no public outcry about this? Why have people become so complacent?

Maybe because they swallowed the fatalism about "living with it". I don't get it either.

We have the highest infection rate in Western Europe and, with it, the highest death rate. All we needed to do was continue with hands face space ventilate which is what other European countries have done. Why is there no public outcry about this? Why have people become so complacent?

The Autumn Spike is growing in this area, a lot of people I know have heavy colds, mostly they have been vaccinated, my betting is that most have low level Covid and have not been tested

GrannyGravy13

The efficacy of Ivermectin has been bubbling along just under the surface for over a year. There does seem to be so many differing views.

Ivermectin is an injectable treatment for stomach worms has been used for livestock for many years also in tropical countries to treat river blindness and no doubt other parasites

Why it would have any effect on a virus is a mystery

My step grandaughter (15) caught covid earlier this year, none of the rest of the family caught it. My DGD2 (14) had it a few weeks ago, again isolated in her bedroom, rest of the family OK.

Thus far (touch wood) DD and her husband haven’t caught covid from their son. They quarantined him in his room: he used a separate bathroom etc. However, his younger brother is still going to school and he’s under the vaccination age so I don’t see how he will avoid catching it. At least a certain amount of mask wearing has been reintroduced at school. But where is the leadership in all this? Where is the information? Who is controlling what is happening? Or do the government just want it to rip through our schools? That’s what I meant by out of control. The virus isn’t even alive so we should be able to control it but the government seem to be dealing with it by pretending it isn’t happening. At least, that’s how it seems to me.

Mamie

The figures this week say that 1 in 14 secondary age children are infected. This is being passed on to fully vaccinated parents who are not able to work as normal. In my GDs Year 11, one hundred students have it.
This is not happening in countries where secondary age children were vaccinated in the summer holidays, masks are worn and restrictions are in place. The rates of infection in other European countries are between seven and ten times lower, children are in school, parents are at work.
On here I see excuses about too much testing, waiting for vaccination data which were already available from other countries, other countries don't test as much and the government is doing its best.
If children are unwell and missing school, parents are unwell and unable to work, how can this be good enough?

You're not seeing any excuses from me. I agree. 1 in 14 secondary school pupils seems about right and it is being passed on to fully vaccinated parents.

In the UK (England?), pupils are told to go into school even if a family member has symptoms. Contacts within the school aren't required to isolate. It really isn't any surprise that infection rates in children and their families are so high.

Alegrias1

Must be something in my make-up, the way I'm made. When I see the phrases "out of control" or "hopelessly disorganised" or "shambles", my hackles rise.

So, those "out of control" rates in schools. They've started to go down, all ages up to age 19.

They are high, they are higher than we would all like them to be, but saying "they're out of control" is just going to increase worry and panic.

Are you actually aware of what's going on in schools?

I don't think "out of control" is much of an exaggeration.

rosie1959

Lateral flow tests have never been perfect I suppose any test in only as good as the person taking the swab
The symptoms of Covid do vary especially with the vacinnated
I think we have had enough experience now to use our own common sense and there are people who are not interested and no matter what information is given out they will take little notice.
We have quite a bit of Covid here but is mainly in secondary schools not heard of any in primary They are vaccinating but not all young people will take it up Our hospitals do not have a surge recording 3 patients this week and deaths are low as in 0

My partner's primary age granddaughter tested positive last week - as did most of her class. Her parents have also now tested positive. Both are doubly vaccinated, so haven't been affected too badly, but are still feeling too bad to work.

Oh, actually, except to say - I'd be more inclined to trust a PhD doctor about epidemiology that I would be to trust a GP doctor.

I'm staying out of that one M0nica

Alegrias1 I feel very uncomfortable with people with PhDs and involvement in the medical industry calling themselves 'Doctor'. It is a bit like the discussion on another thread of the definition of a nurse.

I do think that there ought to be some self-limiting agreement in the medical industry that you do not use the title 'Doctor' unless you are a fully qualified clinical doctor. There are so many quacks and dodgy types, claiming to be doctors because they have a PhD in some irrelevant subject, plus some medical training.

In the same way, if you say you are a Nurse, you should be a fully qualified and registered nurse.

Alegrias1 I feel very uncomfortable with people with PhDs and involvement in the medical industry calling themselves 'Doctor'. It is a bit like the discussion on another thread of the definition of a nurse.

I do think that there ought to be some self-limiting agreement in the medical industry that you do not use the title 'Doctor' unless you are a fully qualified clinical doctor. There are so many quacks and dodgy types, claiming to be doctors because they have a PhD in some irrelevant subject, plus some medical training.

In the same way, if you say you are a Nurse, you should be a fully qualified and registered nurse.

I think the problem is MayBee70 they're too complicated for Dr Campbell as well.

I saw one of his videos where he went over, almost word for word, the work of a researcher which he had no input into, and he kept using phrases like "we did this" and "we think that". "We" did nothing, at least, not him.

As for Ivermectin being safe in its correct dosage, that may be true but many things are safe in their correct dosage. That doesn't mean they are any good at treating Covid though.

He isn’t a medical doctor. But he does provide links to all the papers he reads. I have to trust his analysis of them as they’re far too complicated for me. Unless he’s got it wrong ivermectin in it’s correct dosage is perfectly safe.

I’m sure this has been asked and answered before, but is ‘Dr.’ John a qualified medical doctor?

No, he's an emergency nurse with a PhD in Nurse Education. So he's perfectly entitled to call himself Dr Campbell.

However, you must surely agree that, going right back to January of last year if people had listened to DrJohn we wouldn’t now have a pandemic.

Maybee70 An interesting and well balanced post, I think, thank you. But I don't agree with the comment you made above. Its a worldwide pandemic, Dr Campbell couldn't have stopped it, even if what he said was 100% true.

My main objection is that he is unaccountable. He can say what he likes, but he doesn't know the whole situation and doesn't have to take into account the bigger picture when he holds forth about things. He was very much in favour of aspiration when the health authorities were not, and there were many current and former health professionals here on GN who disagreed with him. I think he puts ideas in people's heads and doesn't have to deal with the aftermath.

Now, as for Independent SAGE

I have never heard of Ivermectin so have just looked it up. What’s off putting as far as I am concerned is the fact that the anti-vaccine brigade are pushing it.

I’m sure this has been asked and answered before, but is ‘Dr.’ John a qualified medical doctor?