Compulsory vacinating for front line medical staff

Margiknot I do not understand the logic of people who cannot see that whether the vaccination stops spread or not, the fact that you are likely to only have a mild attack of the disease and that you are unlikely to die or be seriously disabled by the disease was cause enough for being vaccinated.

And as you said, incidence of COVID among the vaccinated is much lower anyway.

I believe the last person in UK to die of smallpox was a woman in Birmingham. It was an accidental infection in a laboratory. Very sad, it was in 1978. Her name was Janet Parker.

Vaccines are for the protection of those who have no choice by those that do have a choice.

So called carers who refuse vaccination clearly don't care.

Yammy Biscuitmuncher has form for chucking a controversial brick and vanishing into the ether. Presumably gets a kick out of it.
So sorry about your husband’s friend. People can be unbelievably stupid.?

Biscuitmuncher

Do none of you wonder why these obviously educated medical professionals dont want the vaccine?

My DH friend was a Medical Professor in Manchester he died of Covid before he could get all three vacs. His family appealed for everyone to take it up.

I noticed too MOnica
I guess it’s because there ARE no answers, or at least none which make sense, or would stand up to scrutiny.
It’s been proven that the vaccines work and that they are safe. That’s enough for the vast majority of us thankfully.

HowVeryDareYou

My friend was in hospital recently and said that quite a few carers and nurses haven't had the vaccine, but that they all wear all the protective gear - aprons, gloves, masks, face shields too, so what's the problem? She had physiotherapy at home, and the physiotherapists wore all that gear as well.

My doctor daughter said the greatest risk of catching covid when she was at work was from other staff when they took off their protective gear. She worked on Covid intensive ITUs and said some of the nurses were very careless in how t.hey changed after a shift making themselves and anyone else in their vicinity vulnerable to infection. Being properly vaccinated significantly reduces the viral load should someone be infectious. It's not rocket science!

I notic, yet again, that Biscuitmuncher is very good at asking questions but doesn't like answering them!

I agree with you M0nica that it tends to be nhs staff with no or minimal medical training that have refused to be vaccinated. Many non clinical staff do have patient contact- clerks, porters cleaners etc - many are in higher risk groups.
A doctor on the TV News argued that as she had recently had Covid she did not need a vaccine. I wonder if staff who can prove they have Covid antibodies from natural infection might also be acceptable.
I often hear the argument that as the vaccine doesn’t stop people catching Covid and spreading it - implying what’s the point of mandating a vaccine that only protects the vaccinated from serious illness not the potential people that they could spread it to. At least I think that is the argument! However statistics clearly show that fully vaccinated ( and boosted) people are much less likely to catch Covid in the first place. All nhs staff have to do mandatory Covid tests.

dilemnas...

My young medic dd and her pals couldn’t get the vaccines done fast enough! She doesn’t know any workmates who’ve refused it.

On the other hand, her unit spent hours one night with an anti-vax mother who was terrified her child had Covid. The child was perfectly well but the mother was hysterical. Yet she said she didn’t believe in vaccines. ?‍♀️

Thank you Lemsip for that interesting link about smallpox in Scotland, so sad, especially about the young lady doctor from Hamilton, our neighbouring town. However, it showed how willing people were to be vaccinated.

My lovely sister in law died last October from Covid. Her daughter, our God daughter, a young wife and mother, was in a coma on a ventilator from October to December. Her Mum was dead and buried by the time she regained consciousness.

My dear friend, from Primary school days, has a son and daughter in law who are both frontline NHS staff... They are not vaccinated.

I think that many families have dilemmas. However, I do believe that all NHS/care staff should be vaccinated a as a condition of employment.

We are in uncharted waters... I have read a lot about the ' Spanish Flu' a century ago. We don't know how long this is going to last, or how much it is going to mutate. One of my greatest fears is that it will affect the children. I have recently heard of children in hospital with Covid, and I remember reading about the numbers of children in Australia and NZ being hospitalised with various RSVs during their winter..

Our local schools are struggling with staff and pupil absences, Scot Gov is saying that we may need to re examine the restrictions of last winter, so I really think that NHS, Care Home Staff and all teachers should be vaccinated.

MamaCaz we all repeat each others at times and as you posted barely two minutes after me, you had no time to see my post.

HowVeryDareYou Protective gear is not a sure protection against infection. DH was in hospital during the second wave of COVID. He was protected from COVID because he volunteered for the AZ testing program and, as we discovered later, had been vaccinated with the vaccine, not the placebo.

However despite all this protective gear for staff they still managed to give him another severe infection, which was antibiotic resistant, and came very close indeed to killing him. His original surgical problem required one operation and a fortnight in hospital. The infection required another 6 weeks in hospital and three more operations because of the antibiotic resistance and a year later he is over the infection but has been left with damaged respiratory system.

Anyone who thinks that providing everyone wears protective gear they are completely protected from infection is delusional.

Sorry M0nica - I see that you made the same point first.

My friend was in hospital recently and said that quite a few carers and nurses haven't had the vaccine, but that they all wear all the protective gear - aprons, gloves, masks, face shields too, so what's the problem? She had physiotherapy at home, and the physiotherapists wore all that gear as well.

Biscuitmuncher

Do none of you wonder why these obviously educated medical professionals dont want the vaccine?

Do you not wonder why around 90% of obviously educated front line health workers are double-vaccinated?

Biscuitminder the vast majority of doctors and senior medical staff are vaccinated. Non-vaccination rates rise as the level of medical training of staff declines and is highest among those working with patients, like porters, cleaners etc, who have no medical training.

Why do you think this is?

Do none of you wonder why these obviously educated medical professionals dont want the vaccine?

I simply cannot understand why people refuse the vaccine, particularly those working with the vulnerable. They are at risk but they are also deliberately putting their patients at risk, which is unforgiveable.

The ridiculous thing is that those carers who are taking on private customers are providing the kind of care that's needed, often, just like that which home helps used to give.
Collecting prescriptions, a bit of housework, preparing meals, etc.

I think everyone (unless for medical reasons) should have the vaccine.

Care home workers who don't want to be vaccinated are becoming microproviders, which means they are moving into caring for people in their own homes as independent carers.
It is a concern that elderly and vulnerable clients may assume that their carers have been vaccinated. I don't know if this is true of care companies or whether just independent care providers.

I am for everyone being vaccinated, I won't use a hair dresser or a physio who isn't vaccinated and I would like to know that anyone I meet in a medical or care setting is too. My mother had diptheria as a teenager which damaged her heart and affected the quality of her life. There wasn't a vaccination then but it is absolutely beyond me why anyone would refuse to be vaccinated against something that can be life changing. I am aware that vaccination does not prevent someone from catching Covid but it does make it much less infectious and surely anyone caring for vulnerable people would not want to risk passing covid to their patients/clients.

I would have no problem with the measure being brought in for new employees (as is the case with other vaccinations), I’m not sure how I feel about it being brought in for those already employed. It is a huge change to their conditions of employment.

I find myself genuinely conflicted about it. On the one hand, they will be working with the most frail and vulnerable. We need to protect those people. On the other, is this truly consent? Consent to medical procedures it’s supposed the be given freely, without coercion or influence. Can we honestly say that the threat of ‘have the vaccine, or lose your job’ isn’t an attempt at coercing them? I really don’t know, I go back and forth on it and really can’t settle on how I feel.

Whatever the rights or wrongs, I just hope it doesn’t lead to too many of our nhs staff leaving their jobs. Most settings are already woefully understaffed. An unvaccinated doctor is better than no doctor at all.