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So far only a hypothetical situation, but what would you do?

(115 Posts)
Lizbethann55 Mon 29-Nov-21 14:55:16

A delightful young woman does the same job as me, but usually at a different site so we only work together occasionally depending on staffing problems and timetable issues. She is lovely, clever, charming and good at her job. Normally I enjoy working with her. But, she is a Covid non believer! Neither she, her husband or her son have been vaccinated. She won't wear a mask. ( During earlier mask wearing instructions she had a " Covid exempt" lanyard. I had presumed it was a medical reason, but apparently not). She doesn't even believe in or does any testing. Back when the vaccinations first came out, as we were furloughed, we were sent to help at the vax centres. I absolutely loved doing it, but she refused as she didn't believe or approve of them.
I have really worked hard to stay safe and have always worn a mask at work all day, on public transport and in shops and public places. I have had all my vaccinations.
Staffing at work at the moment is really bad and we are being moved all over the place. The chances are that sooner or later, I will be sent to work with her or she will have to come to my location. Do you think I would be entitled or justified to refuse to work with her?

MayBee70 Tue 30-Nov-21 11:14:43

The owner of Iceland has said they won’t make people wear masks in their shops. The Telegraph keep running articles about how masks don’t work etc. I’m sick of all of the mixed messages. What is wrong with people in this country. If the virus was visible ( plagues of rats, rabid dogs) people would be happy to put up barriers between themselves and it.

FarNorth Tue 30-Nov-21 10:17:31

Biscuitmuncher

Isnt it funny that she's never worn a mask, and is unvaccinated? It's a wonder she's still alive

You know that mask-wearing mainly protects others, rather than oneself?

And most others around her have been wearing masks.

Barmeyoldbat Tue 30-Nov-21 09:12:46

I would definitely not work with her, ok she puts herself at risk by not getting vaccinated but she puts you at risk by none mask wearing, all this about being medically exempt is rubbish, you can still wear a mask.

MissAdventure Tue 30-Nov-21 08:11:56

That's probably due to the fact that most people are vaccinated and wear masks.

Biscuitmuncher Tue 30-Nov-21 08:05:35

Isnt it funny that she's never worn a mask, and is unvaccinated? It's a wonder she's still alive

BigBertha1 Tue 30-Nov-21 07:25:05

I would be task ng my manager and HR for a new Risk Assessment 're the whole situation you are entitled to that and to see the outcome.

rosie1959 Mon 29-Nov-21 23:33:21

France does have much tighter rules than the UK but yet its covid rates are increasing at quite a speed

Dinahmo Mon 29-Nov-21 23:06:34

Back in the summer the owners of bars and restaurants in France were told that they had to check the covid passports of anyone entering their premises. Some of them refused and closed rather than act as gendarmes. There were demonstrations throughout the country in support of those who refused. Gendarmes had the power to enter premises to check that diners had passports and the owners could be fined if someone without a passport was present.

This reaction died away fairly quickly. I've only seen one person without a mask in the supermarket and you will be told not to come into shops, doctors etc etc if unmasked. We recently went to a concert, probably 1000 people in the audience. When we arrived there was a long queue to have covid passports checked and we were required to wear masks indoors. The queue moved quickly and it was no big deal.

I'm an asthmatic and find masks very difficult to wear. My nose starts to run and I'm gasping for breath by the time we leave a supermarket. However, once seated, breath regained and calm, mask wearing is not a problem.

Sometimes the French surprise me. Before covid we had demos every week end in support of the gilets jaunes and in some ways the people who supported them were like the Insulate Britain demonstrators - middle class, middle aged professional people. These same people, when the covid measures are discussed just shrug and say that it's what we have to do.

grumppa Mon 29-Nov-21 22:37:25

An anti-vaxer I know attributes the deaths from COVID to to the sufferers being given the wrong treatment. Simple!

MissAdventure Mon 29-Nov-21 22:29:48

I think the issue of consent is going to be our downfall, and it is such a big deal.

JenniferEccles Mon 29-Nov-21 22:26:33

The anti-vaxxers who state they would take the medication if it was in pill form rather than a vaccine, just goes to show how illogical their thinking is.

It concerns me that the longer people refuse the vaccine, yet don’t succumb to covid, the stronger their resolve will be.

Rosina Mon 29-Nov-21 22:16:13

Lizbethann have you ever asked this woman what she thinks the cause might be of millions of deaths? I have yet to meet a rabid anti vaxxer or Covid denier, but would like to hear what they have to say, especially about the 'conspiracy' theory which seems to have been stealthily arranged to include every government on earth. Has anyone heard an even half logical argument for a conspiracy theory - what might it be for?

Luckygirl3 Mon 29-Nov-21 20:53:52

My friend has just come back from France. The rules are clear and tight and people obey them.

What is the matter with some people here that they cannot just bite the bullet and get on with it? It is pathetic.

I am sorry to sound like an old Grandma (!?) but we all have some concept of what people during two world wars tolerated and they just got on with it - blackouts, gas masks, rationing etc.

I am getting tired of hearing these snowflakes thinking they are hard done by when really so little is being asked of them under the current rules.

Disgruntled of Great Britain smile

Baggs Mon 29-Nov-21 19:32:14

The second one: voluntarily

Baggs Mon 29-Nov-21 19:31:22

Normally one wouldn't know or be entitled to know the medical status of fellow employees. This pandemic has thrown up some serious ethical issues.

Admittedly, the "covid non believer" has voluntarily made her covid position known to others voluntarily.

Do tell us, should the dreaded situation occur, Lizbethann, how it is resolved.

MissAdventure Mon 29-Nov-21 19:23:57

There is a difference between medically exempt vs. a non believer, as has been said, but the virus won't know about any of that.
As it stands, if someone wants to buy an exemption lanyard and wear it, there is nothing to be done.

Hetty58 Mon 29-Nov-21 19:20:46

Lizbethann55, as a valued member of staff, your concerns should be taken seriously. When we're comfortable, we perform at our best.

There were a couple of people I preferred not to work with, a chap who didn't use deodorant (somewhat whiffy on a hot day) and a nervous woman who chattered incessantly.

I made my feelings known to my boss, who tried her best to make sure that we seldom worked together (and apologised if it was unavoidable).

Galaxy Mon 29-Nov-21 18:49:14

And as some one says no one has to disclose their medical info to you so you could be working with a number of non vaccinated people who havent told you. I go into numerous schools for example none have ever requested my vaccination status. So hundreds of staff could be working with me on a weekly basis. I am fully vaccinated but they have no way of knowing that.

Liz46 Mon 29-Nov-21 18:40:46

We have (had) a friend who says there is no such thing as Covid and we bumped into her at the shops where she was wearing an exempt badge. I know there is nothing wrong with her and I have asthma and bronchiectasis but try my best to wear a mask.

She sent me various messages denying Covid and I finally snapped and told her about how badly family members have been affected. For instance BIL in hospital for the second time.

I then blocked her.

Dinahmo Mon 29-Nov-21 18:32:02

I was listening to an interesting discussion about anti-vaxxers and some people thought that if the vaccine was in pill form they would be quite happy to take it. After all, it's only medicine.

What I find strange is that we all want preventive medicine which could prevent more serious ailments in the future. For example, for the last week or so I've been waking up with a painful neck and am looking at ways of dealing with the pain
before it gets worse and I may need to go to an osteopath. That's what the vaccine is - preventative medicine.

MissAdventure Mon 29-Nov-21 18:22:35

Colleagues aren't at liberty to be informed about the reasons a person is exempt.

Septimia Mon 29-Nov-21 18:14:08

At the worst, if you have to work alongside her, I suggest that you take all the precautions of hand sanitising, mask wearing etc and open the windows and doors for good ventilation. If she comments, then ask her to wear a mask as a courtesy to you and your concerns. Difficult, though.....

GagaJo Mon 29-Nov-21 17:50:19

There is a difference between being medically exempt and a non-believer though. An exempt person will presumably take some precautions, even if not being as careful as the OP. A non-believer will take no precautions at all, because they think it's all a fake. So an exempt person is safer to be around than an anti vaxxer/covid disbeliever.

I worked with one in the disbelieving category. He was an idiot. Quoted me the 5G guff. Ironically, but not totally surprisingly (didn't wear masks) he caught C19 and was quite ill. He was also responsible for about 10 students also catching it, because he didn't enforce mask wearing with the students he worked with.

There was NO way I could ask not to work with him because we were the entirety of our department. But I opened windows when he was in the room. Sat as far as possible away from him. And outright avoided him as much as possible, rude I know but...

eazybee Mon 29-Nov-21 17:44:20

Consult your manager , inform him of your concerns, and ask what the firm's policy is about mask-wearing, exemption, risks to others. I doubt if they have a specific policy but they need to have one in place very quickly, and ask to see it. Ask what the position is about being expected to work with someone who refuses to take any precautions at all, at a time of crisis.
Your colleague refused to work at vaccination centres because she doesn't approve or believe in them. You should be able to exercise a similar prerogative, because you don't approve of her behaviour, which is putting you at risk.

Galaxy Mon 29-Nov-21 17:33:40

If their exemption is because of a disability then the equality act would ensure you couldnt curtail their activities.