Christmas party at Downing Street last year

I think posters who can’t bring themselves to watch reports which put forward a view from a reputable source based on the available information because they have pre-decided that it will be biased blow any credibility they may have previously had.
The only way to develop a balanced view is to accept that your view isn’t the only one, and be prepared to change your opinions based on new knowledge that challenges your beliefs. There’s no point arguing with blind prejudice.
In any case as has been said many times this thread is not about Labour, it about whether it’s acceptable for the Covid rules set by the government to be broken by the government.

lemongrove

As I said GSM ....it’s just gleeful political point scoring.

Political point scoring is also very much part of the Tory MO - and not specific to this current administration, either. Have you forgotten Cameron and Osborne continually pointing out Labour's failings?

Don't you think that our system of adversarial government - as opposed to consensus government - makes political point scoring inevitable?

The Opposition's job is to challenge the government of the day and hold them to account. If the boot were on the other foot, that is exactly what the Tories would do.

Interestingly, when Starmer is discussing issues and being methodical in his 'forensic' lawyer-type mode, he's considered 'boring', yet when he becomes more dynamic and challenges the government - he's scoring political points.

I think it's hypocritical to accuse one side of doing exactly what the other side do. It's Politics - Starmer and Johnson are 'in Politics'. And they score points against each other - because the British people don't appear to want any other form of government, certainly not one run on consensual lines.

Nightsky I can just imagine what Cressida Dick said on reading Gardiners missive ?

Kinnock whether you like it or not paved the way for a labour victory. I am hoping and praying that Starmer can achieve what kinnock did.

Whitewavemark2

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Cressida Dick must surely have better things to do ( like knife crime in London) than investigate a party that might have taken place in Downing St, a year ago.

Absolutely pathetic of Barry Gardiner to write asking her to investigate something like this.

Oh, come back Mrs Merton.

"So what first attracted you to the altruistic multi-millionaire Labour Minister .......... ?"
Insert name as appropriate.

It was at the time of the GE that we all thought Kinnock would win because the Tory party had been shown to be sleazy and incompetent

Kinnock - ah yes.

This constituency has been Tory for quite some time although we used to have Labour MP. However, Labour voters whom I know locally said they would rather vote abstain, or vote Tory rather than vote for Kinnock even though he is Welsh.
It seemed odd to me but I have wondered since just how altruism compares with the "I'm all right Jack" tendencies displayed by Kinnock later. Now Baron Kinnock, of course.

Coastpath It’s an old saying, and just means a safe seat for whatever Party.....it’s used as ‘if you put a red rosette on a pig Labour voters would vote for it’ as well.?

Germanshepherdsmum

I haven’t bothered to watch it because I’m just not interested. It’s not something that would change the way I vote.

It is amazing how someone keeps posting, again and again- about something they have no interest in, at all. And can't be bothered to watch or read, any facts.

No wonder we are in this mess !

Me, me, me, me and s*d the rest. Nice.

Very true Calistemon and we need to focus on the here and now.

Oh yes Algerias because everyone in Scotland is (and was always) so altruistic ?
One anecdote does not make things a fact about millions of voters and why they vote as they do.

Welcome back under your new name Coastpath, I had wondered where you were.

Probably Labour do get into power every so often but suspect they need a change of leader first
But as we have a bit of a wait before the next election anything can happen

Thirty years ago I moved from Scotland to England for a few years, at that time Scotland was overwhelmingly Labour. It was at the time of the GE that we all thought Kinnock would win because the Tory party had been shown to be sleazy and incompetent; obviously he didn't. I remember speaking to a lady who worked on the factory floor of the place I worked, who told me she was going to vote Tory. I asked her why, and she said she knew which side her bread was buttered; she'd bought her house etc and it didn't matter to her about the rest of the country, she and her family were doing OK.

That has stuck with me because it was completely at odds with everything I had heard in Scotland, where even the Tories understood that voting was about what was best for society, not what was best for you and your nearest and dearest; it stuck with me especially how working people can be influenced to think that the Tory party is the party of the working man when they're actually the party of the "I'm all right Jack" tendency.

Vote for who you like, that's what democracy is all about. But don't try to pretend that the Tories are the party of the working class. This working class girl, and her generations of working class ancestors, know a lot better.

You also have to believe the opposition party can do better.

I agree rosie1959. Or at least that they can't do worse than those in power. There has to be a tipping point on that surely.

I can see why you might think that Smileless2012 but all my post did was sum up exactly what GSM had just told us. If the reflection in the mirror is unpleasant it is not the mirror's fault.

Nice idea but for that to happen you have to have a party in opposition that appeals to the electorate you also have to believe the opposition party can do better

Either scenario maybe the case Coastpath but that doesn't IMO justify your response to GSM.

Has anyone said you do "have to justify wanting to talk about this issue" Galaxy.

Of course anyone is entitled to vote as they see fit. GSM told us without being asked why she votes the way she does. I did not ask her to justify her position.

I guess where people differ is that some people vote based purely on their own financial situation and some people apply the principle that "When you're not doing so well, you vote for a better life for yourself. If you are doing quite nicely, vote for a better life for others."

No and we dont have to justify wanting to talk about this issue.

An unpleasant post IMO Coastpath. GSM is entitled to vote as she feels fit as the rest of us are and she doesn't have to justify it to you or anyone else.

Mistakes have been made, rules have been broken, not just at No 10 last December.

All this is a diversion from what is happening here and now.

There will, we hope, be time for retrospection later but we need to concentrate on what is important right now ie dealing what is happening with the arrival of yet another variant.

Germanshepherdsmum

There are many good, hardworking people in the Conservative government (as in any other party). It's a party whose policies have looked after my family and I over the years and has rewarded our hard work; we were not born with silver spoons in our mouths. As a result we have a comfortable life and I reward them with my vote. I know only too well that Labour would if they could squeeze me (and anyone who dares to have any savings or investments and an inheritance to leave to their children) until the pips squeak.

That is 50 years behind the times. You need to get up up to date.

For me, yes. I vote for the party which has always looked after me and my family and allowed us to get on in life. The Conservative party has, for us, always been the party of the working man; not Labour. Do you seriously think I would vote for a party whose avowed intent would be to take away what I've worked all my life for? As McDonnell most certainly would have. But I don't have to justify my vote to anyone. Suffragettes fought for women to be able to vote and we all have the luxury of being able to vote and to cast our vote as we choose in a free country.

Anyway, the sun has now come out so I'm off outside and will leave everyone to enjoy picking over the bones. Have a nice day!

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