Christmas party at Downing Street last year

Dickens

lemongrove

As I said GSM ....it’s just gleeful political point scoring.

Political point scoring is also very much part of the Tory MO - and not specific to this current administration, either. Have you forgotten Cameron and Osborne continually pointing out Labour's failings?

Don't you think that our system of adversarial government - as opposed to consensus government - makes political point scoring inevitable?

The Opposition's job is to challenge the government of the day and hold them to account. If the boot were on the other foot, that is exactly what the Tories would do.

Interestingly, when Starmer is discussing issues and being methodical in his 'forensic' lawyer-type mode, he's considered 'boring', yet when he becomes more dynamic and challenges the government - he's scoring political points.

I think it's hypocritical to accuse one side of doing exactly what the other side do. It's Politics - Starmer and Johnson are 'in Politics'. And they score points against each other - because the British people don't appear to want any other form of government, certainly not one run on consensual lines.

Yes, of course, they all do it, which is why I was simply pointing that fact out, meaning it’s a nine day ( if that) wonder.
Starmer doesn’t think anything will come of it, but has probably been advised to go on the attack with every little thing that comes to hand.
The populace have more important things on their minds just at the moment though.

I think Starmer has more ethics, Galaxy, so maybe not.

Galaxy

Kinnock whether you like it or not paved the way for a labour victory. I am hoping and praying that Starmer can achieve what kinnock did.

I didn't say I didn't like it - let's face it, Kinnock lost four elections.
And it was John Major who paved the way to a New Labour victory.

Blair and some of his government knew which paths were paved with gold and didn't mind if people became filthy rich.

#disillusionedBlairvoter

True Coastpath it helps on the politics pages I find.

Well researched GG. I confess to having neither the time nor the patience. The whole thing is the best Starmer can do by way of opposition and a complete diversion from the important issues of the day which should be taking up parliamentary time, such as would-be asylum seekers drowning, the persistent failure to prevent children dying at the hands of their parents, the appalling NHS waiting lists, how we can get more people vaccinated and how we can find homes for the homeless. But all the opposition can talk about is an office Christmas do.

lemongrove

Coastpath that’s a joke right? ?
I have rarely seen a person less likely to be worried about what other posters think.

Except yourself of course.

No Paddy, it may be wrong to defer to a class system ( which most countries have) but if you are a lawyer ( for example) then that isn’t working class.It’s not about where you started, but where you end up.I should imagine that many of us on here started life in a council house or similar.

?

Nothing sinister about recognising a certain writing style Gill ( note that I would never use an old name in case the poster didn’t want it.)
It’s also natural to wonder where posters have got to.

Alegrias that reminds me of the woman I met at college when I went in my 30's .She always told people she was "middle class" because she had a fridge freezer and a washing machine.
Now I was raised in a council scheme for most of my childhood where I never heard about this "class" thing and was quite surprised , but the lady a Liverpudian who had moved here with her Scots husband assured me its what people she knew at home all believed and all wanted to move up a class.
A t that time I had 3 businesses running and she was very surprised I wasn't "middle class " too ...but alas I dont believe in these fake classes and as far as I'm concerned if you WORK for a living you're working class .Regardless of what job you do .Of course "class" is a manufactured thing topped by the RF .....for whom the divisive nature of them and us is what makes so many folk think a Lord or a prince is better than they are and have to be bowed to or obeyed( and worshipped by many) for their own gain .

How nice to have been outside in the fresh air and now to catch up on all this.

Alegrias, do stop pretending you’re working class. Like me you were born into a family which was, and always had been, working class. Like me you have done well in life. As had the lady on the factory floor, and well done her. Thanks in no small part to the policies of successive Conservative governments. Your voting choice is your hard-won prerogative but please don’t pretend that all who vote Labour do so from altruistic motives and that all who vote Conservative are ‘all right Jack’. During my working life I used my professional qualifications to help others less fortunate than me and I now make significant donations to charity which is a private matter that I mention simply to enlighten you and others who seem to think that people with my political leanings are only in it for themselves. I prefer to make my own philanthropic choices rather than have them made for me by government.

I will address that to you too Kali. My family and me first, as I imagine is the case with most of us. Others helped too, not ‘s*d everyone else’.

JaneJudge

Alegrias, I'd take no notice. It was quite clear you were telling a story of how you hadn't come across that mindset before and not in Scotland. I believe there is a big difference in how nations feel and how they vote.

One person is not a Nation....
Personal anecdotes are usually shot down in flames by you Alegrias as not being representative of the facts.
Still....it’s nearly Christmas, so you can have this one as a present.

Coastpath

lemongrove

Welcome back under your new name Coastpath, I had wondered where you were.

Well you see, I thought about it Lemongrove and decided not to let myself be bullied into submission.

That's a bit sinister lemongrove, does this mean you have some sort of program which analyses poster's writing styles?

Coastpath that’s a joke right? ?
I have rarely seen a person less likely to be worried about what other posters think.

I have read the article and watched the interview.

There is/was a legislative loophole covering Government Buildings, this is mentioned in the article. (1984 legislation used to bring in the tier system)

I do not think the party was appropriate, but after reading the full article and the comments from Adam Wagner a barrister at Doughty Street Chambers (an expert on Covid regulations) it appears that it in all probability was not illegal, just inexplicably not thought through as how it would appear to the electorate.

The article does state that the PM was not in attendance.

Thank you JaneJudge

Alegrias, I'd take no notice. It was quite clear you were telling a story of how you hadn't come across that mindset before and not in Scotland. I believe there is a big difference in how nations feel and how they vote.

lemongrove

Welcome back under your new name Coastpath, I had wondered where you were.

Well you see, I thought about it Lemongrove and decided not to let myself be bullied into submission.

Dear god in heaven....

OK, seeing as I'm here and in the mood...

It was an introduction for me to the way some Tory voters think. Which is clearly still in action today, as we have seen from specific comments on this thread that essentially say they don't want to hear about the wrongdoing of the Tory party because the Tory party has been good to them so that's the end of it.

As for thinking they were inferior to me? Why would you think that? Because I mentioned she was on the factory floor, as a means of helping people understand that she was one of the "working class"? Like me? Me who was working in the same factory????

Alegrias1

lemongrove

Oh yes Algerias because everyone in Scotland is (and was always) so altruistic ?
One anecdote does not make things a fact about millions of voters and why they vote as they do.

Nah, not really, I do wonder about the 30 something percent who voted for Brexit.

But its my anecdote and its about how my political ideas evolved. I still see it in people who think that as long as they've got their comforts, devil take the rest.

And it's also quite interesting in the light of the fact that the so-called party of the working man haven't been able to win a majority in my country for nearly 70 years.

Imagine basing your political views on the words of one person that you obviously felt was significantly inferior to you!

lemongrove

Coastpath It’s an old saying, and just means a safe seat for whatever Party.....it’s used as ‘if you put a red rosette on a pig Labour voters would vote for it’ as well.?

I do admire our fortitude Lemongrove! Attacked from all sides and you keep coming back. So many assumptions made about you no matter how often you advise to the contrary.

Calistemon

^Ironically I’ve just been hauled over the coals for not realizing a thread about gallstones was an older one^
Kamiso
Gallstones are still relevant and bothering people today!!
Why were you in trouble?

Because I inadvertently picked up an old thread!

I searched gall stones then asked a few questions. My hospital doesn’t do the surgery to remove the stones and want to remove the gall bladder.

The implied threat is that they can do the surgery early in the new year but if I enquire about other methods I may be put to the back of the queue.

The first responses were telling me off for answering an old thread!

lemongrove

Oh yes Algerias because everyone in Scotland is (and was always) so altruistic ?
One anecdote does not make things a fact about millions of voters and why they vote as they do.

Nah, not really, I do wonder about the 30 something percent who voted for Brexit.

But its my anecdote and its about how my political ideas evolved. I still see it in people who think that as long as they've got their comforts, devil take the rest.

And it's also quite interesting in the light of the fact that the so-called party of the working man haven't been able to win a majority in my country for nearly 70 years.

lemongrove

Nightsky I can just imagine what Cressida Dick said on reading Gardiners missive ?

Unprintable.

Alegrias1

Thirty years ago I moved from Scotland to England for a few years, at that time Scotland was overwhelmingly Labour. It was at the time of the GE that we all thought Kinnock would win because the Tory party had been shown to be sleazy and incompetent; obviously he didn't. I remember speaking to a lady who worked on the factory floor of the place I worked, who told me she was going to vote Tory. I asked her why, and she said she knew which side her bread was buttered; she'd bought her house etc and it didn't matter to her about the rest of the country, she and her family were doing OK.

That has stuck with me because it was completely at odds with everything I had heard in Scotland, where even the Tories understood that voting was about what was best for society, not what was best for you and your nearest and dearest; it stuck with me especially how working people can be influenced to think that the Tory party is the party of the working man when they're actually the party of the "I'm all right Jack" tendency.

Vote for who you like, that's what democracy is all about. But don't try to pretend that the Tories are the party of the working class. This working class girl, and her generations of working class ancestors, know a lot better.

30 years is a very long time to be stuck in the past. Most people move on in life, I certainly have.