Could Omicron actually be a good thing?

Why test every day if you have no symptoms? I truly am beginning to despair of all this. Stay home if you are not well. I did for 14 days to be on the safe side. No need to take lateral flows every day.

Would we be doing this if we had to pay for them?
I doubt it.

Urmstongran

Because growstuff what I’m saying is these lockdowns do is just kick the can up the road so as not to overwhelm ‘our NHS’.
Maybe with this milder (yet highly transmissible) variant we ought to be mingling and building up our immune systems. We shit ourselves away in the winter, come back out in the summer and then get another lockdown next year again.

Rinse and repeat.

Omicron is the most sinister threat we have ever faced - a mysterious stealth virus that spreads with no symptoms or manifestations of illness whatsoever! Who could have imagined that we would face such a devious and implacable viral enemy?

None of us are anywhere near lockdown.

Omicron is not sinister. I think the Black Death and nuclear annihilation were a bit worse. Just wait till you see the climate change fallout.

Shit is quite appropriate.

* shut

Because growstuff what I’m saying is these lockdowns do is just kick the can up the road so as not to overwhelm ‘our NHS’.
Maybe with this milder (yet highly transmissible) variant we ought to be mingling and building up our immune systems. We shit ourselves away in the winter, come back out in the summer and then get another lockdown next year again.

Rinse and repeat.

Omicron is the most sinister threat we have ever faced - a mysterious stealth virus that spreads with no symptoms or manifestations of illness whatsoever! Who could have imagined that we would face such a devious and implacable viral enemy?

Last weekend we had a lovely pre- Christmas meal at my house with DD and DS and their wives and families . We kept a couple of windows open but we were very physically close around the table for a couple of hours .One DGD was unwell on the following night , tested positive the next day ! Now everyone except DS and I have tested positive . We have had our boosters . I will test every day until 10 days are up and not meet inside with anyone, but it seems ( if it is Omicrom) very contagious . They all feel as if they have heavy colds ,the remaining adults are double jabbed and had booked their boosters ! Grandkids all under 12 .

Sorry, lots of cross-posting.

Some of it very cross.

What if the symptoms are mild?
What if infection confers robust long-term immunity with minimal deaths and hospitalisations?

What if they're not?

Willing to wait and see?

What if the restrictions are actually reducing immunity and harming, rather than helping, our chances of 'living with the virus'? How would that work, then?

Your freedom is not being assaulted by having to wear a mask at the football and working from home. Trying to suggest that it is, is a bit inflammatory, IMO.

I think ug you outline one side of a dichotomy.

Your argument puts individual choice as the most important and desirable.

I would however argue that what is most important thing, particularly in times of crises is the community. We all sacrifice some of our so called freedoms in order to protect each other.

I would also argue that community needs to be emphasised much more in order to heal the dreadful division that has been created since 2016.

What if the restrictions are actually reducing immunity and harming, rather than helping, our chances of 'living with the virus'?

What kind of nonsense is this?

No, Plan B isn't the slightest bit disturbing. It's sensible and hardly an imposition to most people.

In the absence of any empirical evidence, isn't it a bit disturbing that the government's default position is to impose restrictions? Plan B.
I thought Boris said he’d review this ‘in 3 weeks’ yet 10 days later he slams the brakes on.

What if the symtoms are mild?
What if infection confers robust long-term immunity with minimal deaths and hospitalisations?

What if the restrictions are actually reducing immunity and harming, rather than helping, our chances of 'living with the virus'?

Surely the default position should be freedom until there's proof restrictions are required. Not restrictions until there's proof freedom is required.

Freedom should be inalienable - not for politicians, public health officials and scientists to play with!

I do hope for the best but I'm still very concerned about Long Covid and it will take some time (obviously) to have any answers. There's just bound to be a post-Christmas surge in cases, hospital admissions and deaths - even without Omicron - as well.

I think that the unvaccinated (by choice) have had plenty of time, information and opportunities by now, so I just can't sympathise with them, at all.

I do hope you’re correct Monica.

Allsorts

I cannot see how another variant if Covid 19 can be classed as a good thing. I do think we have to be aware of the risks of not taking every precautions against it. Tge people not vaccinated will be tge one’s admitted to hospital and probably not come out or if they do with life changing health issues, that’s their choice, but I don’t see why other people like nurses and carers should pay the price, it’s 20 times more likely you are to catch Covid from a non vaccinated person. I won’t knowingly mix with them, continue to wear my mask in public places, got used to it now, we have to live with it.

I'm not sure where your evidence is that somebody is 20 times more likely to catch Covid from a non-vaccinated person. Do you have any links?

It's mostly speculation at the moment, but the theory about Omicron being a good thing is as follows:

It's known that the Omicron variant has mutations which mean it's more easily transmissible. It also seems to provide some immunity against all variants. Therefore, if a person catches Omicron, they won't be infected with other variants. That means that other variants will run out of hosts and will die out.

At the moment, it's theoretical. Nobody really knows. It appears that Omicron causes less severe illness, but so far most of the data comes from South Africa, which has a young population. The results might be different in the rest of the world.

To date, nobody really knows for sure how effective current vaccines are against Omicron. Scientists are working to adapt, but it takes time to do the research and trial and produce vaccines.

There is also the likelihood that Omicron itself will mutate, in which case the resulting variant could cause more severe outcomes - or maybe not.

The fact is that speculation is not very meaningful. For the moment, it would be wise to reduce risk of being infected, using all the methods people know about.

Yes. I’m really hopeful, too ( unusual for me). However, if it doesn’t turn out to be more mild than Delta I think it will absolutely floor me: which is why I usually take the pessimistic approach! Less danger of disappointment if I do that.

While we won't get any definitive answers for a few weeks, I'm encouraged by the numbers of 'medics' who think this variant, while hugely more transmissible, is less lethal. We can hope this will be our pathway out of the pandemic. We live with influenza and its mutations every year, we may have to live in the same way with Covid.

I see they are saying that three doses of the Pfizer vaccine are effective against Omicron so my fingers are crossed that they're right.

I am, of course, just putting the other side as recommended in two other threads [smili]

It is just that I began to wonder. I am afraid I am utterly indifferent to the unvaccinated (except those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons), but yes, I do agree about, the pressure on the health services.

Perhaps the unvaccinated could be put under lockdown until the danger is over.

I cannot see how another variant if Covid 19 can be classed as a good thing. I do think we have to be aware of the risks of not taking every precautions against it. Tge people not vaccinated will be tge one’s admitted to hospital and probably not come out or if they do with life changing health issues, that’s their choice, but I don’t see why other people like nurses and carers should pay the price, it’s 20 times more likely you are to catch Covid from a non vaccinated person. I won’t knowingly mix with them, continue to wear my mask in public places, got used to it now, we have to live with it.

M0nica

The strategy for dealing with flu, is vaccination. If you are vaccinated against COVID, omicron is a mild disease.

Everyone has free choice as to whether they are vaccinated or not. yes, there are a few exceptions, but it is a few exceptions.

The person who chooses not to be vaccinated against COVID is in much the same position as anyone who refuses any other vaccination. They have chosen consciously to take the risk that if they catch the disease, whether, mumps, shingles, or COVID, because they have not been vaccinated that they may be very ill and may die. It is their choice I do not know why they should be considered in the equation.

But for the majority of people who are vaccinated, Omicron may well be the way out.

I am merely speculating, but perhaps it is time with new treatments being announced almost daily and vaccinations becoming more quickly adaptable, we should be looking forward and planning how we can live normal lives with the disease.

And yet now we are fast going headlong into Plan B...... and most likely more restrictions on their way ?

The strategy for dealing with flu, is vaccination. If you are vaccinated against COVID, omicron is a mild disease.

Everyone has free choice as to whether they are vaccinated or not. yes, there are a few exceptions, but it is a few exceptions.

The person who chooses not to be vaccinated against COVID is in much the same position as anyone who refuses any other vaccination. They have chosen consciously to take the risk that if they catch the disease, whether, mumps, shingles, or COVID, because they have not been vaccinated that they may be very ill and may die. It is their choice I do not know why they should be considered in the equation.

But for the majority of people who are vaccinated, Omicron may well be the way out.

I am merely speculating, but perhaps it is time with new treatments being announced almost daily and vaccinations becoming more quickly adaptable, we should be looking forward and planning how we can live normal lives with the disease.

Alegrias1

People who know about viruses know that there is no pressure for this virus to mutate to a milder version because it can be passed on to another host before the first one is even showing symptoms.

Still, I hope that it is milder, or at the very least that our current vaccines are good enough. Which I think they are. Not that I'm an expert.

I agree. Viruses don't have any pressure on them to do anything. They don't "decide" whether to be stronger or milder. Mutations are random and the most successful survive.

If the variant does prove to be more transmissible but its effects are milder, it would be great. However, there's no guarantee. At the moment, the UK doesn't even have the capacity to identify all cases, so much is still unknown.

As I read it, it’s the risk of sick unvaccinated patients overwhelming the hospitals that the UK governments are very concerned about, and the requirement for the booster vaccinations to stay ahead of the curve of the infections.

Agreed Casdon.

I think and hope you’re right Alegrias1.

I got this from Reuters.

‘GENEVA, Dec 8 (Reuters) - The Omicron variant has been reported in 57 nations and the number of patients needing hospitalisation is likely to rise as it spreads, the World Health Organization said on Wednesday.

The WHO, in its weekly epidemiological report, said more data was needed to assess the severity of disease caused by the Omicron variant and whether its mutations might reduce protection from vaccine-derived immunity.

"Even if the severity is equal or potentially even lower than for Delta variant, it is expected that hospitalisations will increase if more people become infected and that there will be a time lag between an increase in the incidence of cases and an increase in the incidence of deaths," it said.’

As I read it, it’s the risk of sick unvaccinated patients overwhelming the hospitals that the UK governments are very concerned about, and the requirement for the booster vaccinations to stay ahead of the curve of the infections.

People who know about viruses know that there is no pressure for this virus to mutate to a milder version because it can be passed on to another host before the first one is even showing symptoms.

Still, I hope that it is milder, or at the very least that our current vaccines are good enough. Which I think they are. Not that I'm an expert.