Funding for the arts versus sports

I think the Sackler funding is the tip of an interesting iceberg.
Sponsorship money for the arts has to be purer than driven snow these days and I don’t really understand it. The money has been made, is it better or worse for some of it to be spent on cultural activities?

4allweknow

So many high profile companies are willing to support/sponsor sports. Of course a great way to raise their profile and profits.How many banners do we see at art galleries, museums , exhibitions showing sponsorship?

Actually there is quite a lot of commercial subsidising of the arts, but the arts people are getting fussy over whose money they will accept. BP, a major arts funder has been rejected by several companies recently, Cutting your nose off to spite your face in this case.

However I do agree that some funding is inappropriate. Those many arts and academic instutions who accepted money from the Sacklers, the US family/firm who developed oxycontin, the opiod drug behind the epidemic of opiod addiction problem in the USA, and who hid the addictive nature of the drug, now face real problems with renaming the facilties the family financed.

Just what I was going to post !

I'm very aware of the lack of funding for the arts as my DD has a degree in Music and works in the arts. She started her career with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra while still a student at Birmingham University, moving from orchestra management into artistic planning and tour management. She has worked for the Royal Scottish National Orchestra and for the Philharmonia in London but now is Head of an all female orchestrs in Dubai. Over the years she has seen public funding in the arts cut more and more. It is understandable that in difficult times, with councils being declared bankrupt, difficult choices have to be made, and Birmingham is one place where huge cuts have happened.

People working in the arts don't command the same salaries as those in equivalent areas of responsibility elsewhere. Her job in Dubai is very well paid, but if she returns to the UK, even to a higher level role, she is unlikely to earn the same amount. Thankfully she is not primarily motivated by money, but by job satisfaction, otherwise she would be unlikely to ever return home!

I've been fortunate over the years to enjoy many of the concerts put on by the orchestras she has worked for, often without charge, or at significantly reduced charge. Frankly I can't afford to attend many such concerts now at the amount they cost, as my pension is quite small, but I was able to go to work with her as her chauffeur, carer and bag carrier when she broke her ankle during her time in London. Part of her role involves attracting sponsorship for the orchestra but this is not easy in the current financial climate. Sadly the situation is unlikely to change any time soon.

So many high profile companies are willing to support/sponsor sports. Of course a great way to raise their profile and profits.How many banners do we see at art galleries, museums , exhibitions showing sponsorship?

Aveline

I think that taking the money out of arts and sport would be likely to make really good artists of all sorts and really good sportsmen more likely to percolate to the top. Too much funding can be stifling too...

I very broad statement, but from personal experience of being a parent whose child graduated drama school a year ago.
We help where we can, but she has a massive student loan, and often works long hours without breaks for weeks on end - she has learned 3 weeks without a day off is probably maximum, just so that she can afford to work on her own work, getting it seen, and getting herself credits. She rarely makes enough to cover her expenses. She needs the credits to be able to work for a theatre or company, and needs exposure for her company to be taken seriously.
She hopes to apply for arts Council funding, but it is very thinly spread, so a company is needed to write the application to increase your chances, and this cost money.
On top of this there are so many professional memberships needed to find and apply for jobs, and if you have an agent, that's at least 10% of your earnings gone.
So in my view, a little more funding would give creatives like her the time and energy to produce new work, and let's not forget the revenue from these productions- the tourists watching West End shows, also using hotels and restaurants, or the small towns like Buxton (where she saw her first show at the fringe) benefitting from visitors.

winterwhite

I can’t think of a good minister for the arts in recent years. Or a good education secretary for the last 10 years. That would help.

I forgot. We had Nadine Dorries!

large Victorian cities also have houses of all periods. The growth of the city can be traced in the age of houses. Georgian in the city centre, not many, replaced by modern offies, but always a few left. Then early Victorian then later, early 20th cnetury, prewar.

I have been on fascinating cit walks pointing out how the road pattern was set down by the Saxons, a market buit by a medieval magnate and so on.

Culture and the Arts are not just in imposing buldings. It si all around us.

There are special grants to schools for sport that every school receives. Where are the special grants for the arts? - non-existent.

Ilovecheese

Schools are also encouraged to go for more science based subjects, because they are easier to mark and grade.

Really. Still guess you can't get decent Art teachers that realise all children's abilities, only a favoured few. Put one child off going for an art degree.

The large Victorian cities tended to have imposing art galleries, museums, public libraries and swimming baths. Usually incorporating somewhere a large hall used for recitals

I don’t think anyone was suggesting robbing Peter to pay Paul, Casdon, just debating the fairness of the current huge discrepancy as revealed by the cost of sending Team GB to Paris.

Cossy

I enjoy watching both sports and the “arts” I enjoy Art Galleries and the theatre.

I think that they are all equally important!

but 'arts' are so much more than just art galleries and theatre, which I am taking to include all music. Our towns and cities were not all built yesterday on blank sites, they were settled, some times 1,000 or more years ago and reflect the deep hsitory of ordinary people that can still be read in the streets and architecture and the every day items of ordinary living found in museaums, that have changed beyond measure since our childhoods. these too are part of the arts and in many cases more ordinary people are immersed in this everyday of their lives. Elite sports is for the few, mostly people just watch sport..

Cossy

I enjoy watching both sports and the “arts” I enjoy Art Galleries and the theatre.

I think that they are all equally important!

👍🏻

I enjoy watching both sports and the “arts” I enjoy Art Galleries and the theatre.

I think that they are all equally important!

On a more positive note, a lot of funding for both sports and the arts comes from the National Lottery, 20% is allocated to each from total Lottery income. 20% of £1.7 billion in 2023/24.
I don’t think when saying there is insufficient funding for the arts, comparing it with sports is an appropriate comparison, because both have huge value to participants, viewers and to our health and self esteem as a nation as well as individually. I don’t think taking money from one to give to the other woukd be a good way forward.

I can’t think of a good minister for the arts in recent years. Or a good education secretary for the last 10 years. That would help.

Schools are also encouraged to go for more science based subjects, because they are easier to mark and grade.

I agree M0nica but when it comes to general elections voters don't think about museums and the arts very much. It's true that museums and galleries attract many visitors and are an important offer for tourism income, ditto the Royal Opera and Ballet for richer tourists, but voters tend to put more weight on the NHS, inflation, etc. And because most national museums and galleries charge governments can avoid the issue. I'd prefer them to be free as they were when I was at school.

One of our GS’s is starting his music GCSE in September, and looking at the syllabus it covers a wide range of music genres including classical.

Doodledog we always were a country of Philistines.

I cannot understand this exclusion of classical music from schools, look how popular ClassicFM is.

Yes, it is seen as elitist, but why?

New sports in LA 2028 are

Baseball/softball
Cricket (T20)
Flag Football
Lacrosse (sixes)
Squash

David49 Breakdancing is not going to be included in the 2028 Olympics.

winterwhite

That’s true David49, but why is it so disproportionate?
The Times article cites a cost of £22 million for training 10 people specifically for the Olympic sailing event, the same sum as the annual grant to the Royal Opera which employs 2000 people and puts on 500 performances a year. Is this disparity really justified.

Yes of course I should have said opera productions rather than performances.

Yes some of the sports are very elitist, but that is going to be redressed next Olympics - Breakdancing is going to be featured again!, I’m sure there will be hot competition to get in the team.

I agree that there is a disparity, and would love to see it addressed. My home town recently renovated its 'leisure centre', which would have been a great opportunity to include an Arts venue, exhibition space etc. A group of people really pushed for this to happen, but no. It's 90% sports, 10% leisure. Houses have now been built on the site of the old Adult Education building, so that's gone too.

We are becoming a nation of philistines. I understand the need to facilitate health and fitness and to address obesity, but walking is free and can be done anywhere, which is much less true of Arts and education.

I could not agree more. Classical music is being seen as. more and more élitist as many state schools have all but given up teaching children about it. The same goes for our wonderful heritage of folk music. Pop music is the only music on offer for many. Meanwhile, in private schools, it is given the recognition it deserves and lots of ensembles. When I was at (state) school, all the way through the seventies until the early eighties when I took A levels, music was given the respect it deserves and we were taught about the classics and folk music. In addition, the peripatetic system was at its peak. I was lucky enough to have private piano lessons, but would never have had the opportunity to learn any other instruments were it not for the opportunities I had at school. The school choirs were very popular and the first proper instrument many of us learned was the recorder. I was in several different recorder ensembles all the way through school - it gave me my first chance of ensemble playing. When I was twelve, I started learning the violin at school from a peripatetic teacher. These lessons were free of charge. I was also able to borrow an instrument from the school for a while to see if I took to it which, of course, I did and my parents bought me my first violin as a joint birthday and Christmas present later that year. I progressed through school and youth orchestras making like-minded friends into the bargain, before going to music college. In those days, you had to have a first study instrument (piano for me) and a second study instrument (violin then viola for me). Most of my college friends had benefited from the peripatetic system in the same way as I had and there was a wide variety of instruments that people studied. If a student had not passed grade 5 piano, they had to learn it as a third study. These days, even the top music colleges only require one instrumental study. I made my career in music and, in addition, have had a great deal of pleasure and fulfilment by playing in different orchestras over the years. Most people who learned through school in this way did not, of course, go on to study music for a career, but many of them have enjoyed being part of various amateur music ensembles over the years. There are many, many people who can say that their lifelong enjoyment of music started with the humble recorder and the encouragement of school.