The UK is a nation of -porkers- discuss

Ah the conjugation of discussion

"I am very happy to contribute when thought-provoking and interesting points are made"

"You let the thread run on before commenting"

"He or she turns it into a silly argument"

What was that quote about silence again?

Morning jingl
You are right about ingestion of fructose being a factor in developing fatty liver disease, but it is more of a concern with high fructose corn syrup which is used in many shop bought cakes, biscuits and of course soft drinks., rather than the small amounts of fructose in fruit. In this country HFCS is more often put on food labels as corn syrup, or glucose-fructose or invert sugar.
That's why if you bake your own cakes and biscuits they will do you less harm than shop bought ones.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fructose_corn_syrup

This is a rather long article about it, but there are some interesting bits - how corporate America conspired to limit the import of cane sugar so that the corn syrup industry could benefit , and how consumption of HFCS peaked in America in 1999, at the same time as obesity levels did.

Didn't take long to revert to type.

X-posts Jane

Morning all
Jane the first part of the series The Men Who Made Us Fat mentioned earlier reveals the story of HFCS and I have been picking up stuff in the supermarket to see if it's in the ingredient list. Simply shocking. As I mentioned before, the slimish presenter's MRI showed his internal body fat was much higher than would be expected for someone his age.

I wonder how many other slimish people's bodies are as healthy as they might think?

I remember watching a documentary a few years ago and many of wealthy people have a yearly MRI as part of their health check. It cost about £6000. If I could afford that level of medical care I would go for it. Mind you, if I had that much money, I would also have my own chef!

Wilma It was Robert Lustig's lecture about sugar in 2009 which opened my eyes to fructose and HFCS. I very rarely buy desserts and cakes now but as MrA 'has' to have something sweet after his evening meal I do cook them. I try to work out how much sugar per portion and as a result I eat much smaller portions than I used to.

Tonight my DD and DSiL are coming round and I'll be poisoning them all with Key Lime Pie, made with sweetened condensed milk
There are 300g of sugar in the whole pie, so I'll be having a minute sliver

That is why "eat real food" is the real message I think.
From what I have read the body does not need sugar and especially not artificial sugars.
Have to say I don't miss it at all now and have no problem leaving it out of my diet. When I was in the process of giving it up I found one or two dates very helpful as a filler. I do eat lots of fruit though.

Excellent posts jane, Wilma and Mamie, thank you.

The quote about silence being better when personal attacks are made against you (one) was copy and pasted- little hearts attached and all. No need to be 'silent' as part of an intelligent discussion and exchange- but cheap insults and jibes are better not replied to. It is clear a few of few, in cohoots- are determined to twist anything I say. The same people- probably chatting by pm about what to say next. That's ok- but I won't respond.

It is clear that some will not ever accept that there is something special about sugar- that there is a clear business/financial 'conspiracy' out there to flog as much of certain types of sugar on to the unsuspecting market, and that it does have an addictive nature- the more you (one) have, the more you want ... and it escalates. And yes, it is slowly bringing the NHS down to its knees.

The thing is, a lot of illness really is down to sheer bad luck and there's not much we can do about it, so anything we can do to stay healthy can only benefit us and society as a whole. And, once illness does kick in it gets harder to keep weight off. Not smoking and trying not to get overweight are two things we do have control over. By the way, has anyone seen that app about lifestyle and cancer [keep seeing it advertised on the telly]. Much as I think it's a good idea I also find it a bit big brother'ish in that they're obviously compiling results from it; it IS a good thing I guess but it bothers me somehow.

This is interesting on sugary drinks and type 2 diabetes (and calories are not all the same).

www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-20/sugary-drinks-and-type-2-diabetes-risk/6711434

Haven't we all got articles coming out of our ears now?

We will never convince each other anyway - it's the nature of the internet.

ja I already knew I was right but thank you for your superior and expert confirmation anyway.

To misquote Mr Mickawber - Calories in 2,000, calories out 2,005 - result, gradual wieght loss. Calories in 2,000, calories out 1'995 - reault gradual weight gain.

Whether the calories of fat or the calories of carboydrate are burnt off first is irrelevant - when the body has used all the fuel easily obtainable from the gut, it will start on the fuel in store.

In 100 grammes of sugar there are 387 calories. In a 5ml teaspoonful - 77.5
In 100 grammes of bread 265 - in a medium slice of brown bread 74
In 100g of boiled potato 103.

In 100 g of fat there are 879 calories - in a teaspoonful 175.8.

Quite Elegran, we just have to stop fooling ourselves about how much we eat and how much real activity we do.

Although I will qualify that by saying I do feel better if I eat as much 'real' food as I can. I enjoy cake, but it HAS to be home made. I enjoy chocolate but it has to be 'little and good'. I've stopped drinking supermarket wine and just buy a couple of decent organic ones....and honestly, I appreciate it much more and it lasts!
I add as much vegetable to any meal as possible, even making a 'lasagne' with slices of courgette instead of pasta. Or I do roll my sleeves up and make pasta...just flour and egg....it takes all afternoon but, boy its appreciated.

AS I've stated before, I'm no slim jim, I've always been 'sturdy' but compared to the population as a whole I am no longer 'the fat girl' in the class room as it were....I'm often a lot smaller that at least half of any given group. As they say....go figure!

Mamie An interesting good article. The big food companies do not want their vast profits to go down and sugars are a cheap way of bulking out food stuffs.

These big companies are those you hear blaming the obesity crisis on the public's lack of exercise rather than their heavy promotion of much sweetened food and drink products.

jingle There is no point in discussing these issues if people CBA to read the various evidence.

Exercise alone is no way to get rid of calories. It takes a depressing amount if exercise to burn off one flapjack. Right now one is looking at me from the table.

And Elegran has used the word 'gradual'. Most people who gain weight do so gradually; an extra 1lb every Christmas, for example, mounts up over 29 years.

But everyone wants to lose it all immediately (or in a couple of months) , and Slimming Clubs and the Diet Industry push this quick loss all the time. Better to think long-term and make adjustments that you can live with long term.

Nellie !!!

How did the flapjack gain entry to your house in the first place??

I think I'll write a diet book myself called 'The Cut Out The Crap Diet'

D'you think it will catch on?

Anya I had it in my rucksack as my emergency food supplies when I was walking on my holiday last week. Packed lunch was included so I didn't buy it specially. Innocent face.

Nellie put your emergency ration back in your rucksack now!! Otherwise next time you're on a long distance hike you will have nothing to fall back on and you might starve to death on some bleak moor, and the crows will get you (dire warning emoticon)

I think that the lower price restaurants, especially the fast-food type give huge portions and people expect it now. If everyone remembered the saying, 'Everything in moderation', there would be fewer overweight people around.

it's not that I 'can't be arsed' (to read articles) Nelliemoser. We all know by now that sugary drinks are bad for you. But no one can possibly spend time reading all the articles from the English speaking world's newspapers.

A calorie is a calorie.

Thank you again Mamie for yet another really interesting article. Great to learn more about those really important issues related to obesity and the realted health issues. It's great that some here do select really relevant articles, even with vastly different points of view. Only way to become better informed and make informed decision.

Just saying something is 'rubbish' is generally not helpful- unless you explain clearly why.

I don't read "all the articles" but I do follow some people on Twitter, including the cardiologist Dr Aseem Malhotra, Dr Ben Goldacre, Zoe Harcombe and Dr Malcolm Kendrick all of whom are really interesting on all of this. I guess you have to make a judgement on who to trust and who is providing the most robust scientific evidence.
On the other hand, I tend not to put too much faith in prople who have financial links to the processed food industry.

That is very true - about financial links to the food industry. You do have to be very careful.