The UK is a nation of -porkers- discuss

seacliff it sounds like you have some ideas about what to do next, so I wish you well and remember those first steps can always be tippy toe size. [flower ]

I'm sorry some people haven't had much luck with IAPT because I have nothing but praise for the support for the service in my area. The current service is expanding over 4 years, so things could change. Also, I would not dismiss CBT because it has its place and is important in helping many people before things get more serious. Like most things, it does depend on the experience of the practioner and most are trained in more than CBT, so they can bring more to the experience than CTB. I would also like to point out that many of the MIND practioner are also NHS employees as MIND, IAPT and the NHS all work together to provide local services. There is also a lot of CBT support materials available online where a person can work through training materials on their own.

Mental health this is a difficult subject for many people to discuss and right now I don't have the energy to keep this part of the discussion going, especially after reading the post by Merseymog which I do find judgemental. However, I do agree with daisy and don't find her comments judgemental, but both posters fill me with despair.

Correction - there are some some fatties who are content to be that way. Most of us do care about our weight and try our best to keep it under control. When I see examples of people who have lost many stones in weight I can't help but think "Why did you let yourself get that big in the first place?". The sooner airlines charge passengers by weight or seat capacity the better!!

I started using the internet when I was trying to give up smoking; as I wouldn't smoke in that part of the house I couldn't do both. Unfortunately one addiction was replaced by another [can't keep away from the pooter] but at least it was a healthier one.Maybe , when you get an urge to eat something you could come onto gransnet or other forums. I also used Paul McKenna hypnotism tapes...maybe they could help.

Thanks all for all the suggestions, just knowing people are kind enough to try and help makes me feel happier. I am in a quite rural area in East Anglia, not very well served for most things! The only thing that came from the link was something general re Mind 21 miles away.

I know of someone nearby that got some CBT through her doctor, but it didn't seem great for her, and she's now on anti depressants. I really DON'T want to go that way, I always try to avoid taking any drugs, apart from my BP ones.

I did try hypnosis years ago, she was trying to make me hate Marmite crisps, but it didn't work - I think the person wasn't very experienced herself.

I am 64, and feel I need to join some regular things, so my week has more of a structure. I will go back to WI and try to find some more groups. It's a bit daunting on your own, but I'll try.

You are both talking about a small minority of people. Most people I know are not like that.

What a judgemental post daisy and you dare to criticise others for rushing to judgement???

Probably a bit serious for GN daisy60. Or do I mean serious, I don't know, sometimes expressing exasperation (?) as you've done seems to upset people. My response is to say absolutely, I find life in the UK so depressing these days, people don't seem to care anymore, they're all too busy having a nice time, or pretending to. And there's too much labelling of people who are struggling. I'm trying not to read comments columns in newspapers which seem to allow people to say the most terrible things. I expect I'll get it in the neck for saying this but I had to respond. People aren't often brave enough to express what you've said and I do so agree.

You've missed the point, which is a serious one.

Gosh, how ageist. Chip. Shoulder. By 'eck.

The term 'porker' is just so offensive. I am fed up with the continuous stream of criticisms directed at people who currently do not fit the current rhetoric in the UK today. That is, 30 something, bringing up 3 + children, mortgage, driven to earn huge salaries, super thin, children that belong to 10 clubs and their parents dash around dropping them off here and there, must have foreign holidays, no boundaries or discipline for their children because 'we have to be child centred' (which incidentally lack of boundaries and discipline is not child centred.) Complete lack of concern or regard for others, lack of empathy and a permanent air of superiority and a belief that they are middle class and better than everyone else. They often ditch there husbands/wives or partners often quoting 'passive aggression' as the cause, most do not even know what it means!
I despair, how long will it be before we see increased propaganda about certain 'out groups' all of which is politically driven. I was born in 1950, but I am very aware of the 40's and how it all began in Germany!!!

When I was feeling very down, my GP leapt on the opportunity to offer me CBT from a medical student who was being trained to use it. She was a very nice young woman and she did it well I think over the 6 weeks on offer, but at the end I felt it was an exercise in encouraging me to think that what I thought simply wasn't true which seemed a bit circular, if you see what I mean!

After that, the GP was a bit 'throwing her hands in the air' and all too keen to write out a prescription for anti-depressants which I didn't want because I've seen too many friends struggle with side effects.

Sometimes life can seem very lonely, maybe it's the UK or maybe it's the modern world, and it's tough to feel down and to have to find your own solutions. Only too tempting to eat that biscuit.....

I do agree about that - in my area CBT is all that is available and it is delivered by people of fairly limited intellect (sorry that sounds snobby, but the person allocated to me had the imagination of a gnat and was so unsure of what she was doing that she did everything by rote).

However, some areas are better than others and offer the sort of counselling that seacliff needs, so it is worth exploring - I do not know where she lives and it may be better there. And I think in some areas there are organisations that provide counselling that is charged according to ability to pay - there is one round here I have discovered.

While I wouldn't want to discourage seacliff, I think the NHS refer yourself system promises more than it delivers and is a bit of a subterfuge. For instance, my postcode offers up a Mind option of joining courses in the autumn which are all CBT based which is something that tends to be short term and surface in its usefulness. The other option is 30 miles away and that's it!

It takes a tremendous amount of willpower to not eat when you're feeling down and with shops available at all hours these days, even if you haven't got something in the house, you can always pop out and buy that bar of chocolate, I've done it. I don't think eating things that taste good is a form of self punishment, it feels really good while you're doing it, it's the long term outcome that's not so good! I saw something the other day about some research that had been done where people who craved chocolate had to imagine eating 30 chocolates slowly one by one and by the end, they didn't much want chocolate. Sounds good if it works.

I'm not sure how old you are seacliff but if you're posting here then probably 'older' and I would recommend both Age UK and the WI as a way of getting out and meeting others. Age UK have a good website and they run lots of local groups of all kinds, including exercise ones like walking and dance where you can join in and meet people who are looking for contact too and my experience of the WI has been an open door to friendship. I think counselling does help but it's always so expensive. To be frank, the NHS is not great and I would agree that finding someone who seems right for you can be a long term and expensive business. All the best.

seacliff you no longer need a referral from your GP to access counselling services. You just need to contact the NHS IAPT service. Find out more here -

www.nhs.uk/Service-Search/Psychological-therapies-(IAPT)/LocationSearch/10008

Anyone can refer themselves for some support with anxiety, depression or stress related problems. The service is available to help people with their mental health. Please don't be afraid to seek help because our mental health is just as important as our physical health. Talking about your thoughts and feelings will help you understand why you turn to food. You are not alone, so think about taking that first step towards asking for help.

I don't have many good things to say about the Tory government, but making it easier to access psychological support is one of the best things it has ever done. People can ask for help and the support will be tailored to their situation. It's not a case of one size fits all.

seacliff; I think overeating is a form of self punishment because, when we have a food binge [believe me I've been there got the tee shirt] we don't actually enjoy what we're eating do we. So the first step is to learn to enjoy food. I could eat a whole tub of ice cream late at night; ditto as many packets of crisps as were in the house. When I was younger it was probably hormonal [realised after many years that the binges happened at certain time of the month, and I craved either chocolate or carbohydrates]. I have got better as I've got older and also don't keep anything in the house that I mustn't eat. One step at a time and keep talking [but not at Overeaters Anonymous methinks; trouble with groups like that is you go there and talk about food]. Good luck.

Having said that, and on reflection, I do acknowledge that such groups have helped a great many people and continue to do so - it's just that the quasi-religious approach doesn't sit well with some.

It is worth talking to your GP about this and asking if there is any counselling available on the NHS. There is in some areas and you might be lucky. If not there are usually counselling organisations in localities which try and offer a service at a reasonable price. Your GP should recognise that this is an important health issue for you and do her/his best to get you what you need.

Oh dear, why do so many of the 'Anonymous' help groups seem to want people to do that? I had a friend who was totally put off AA for that reason, and he didn't like the chanting of the Serenity Prayer at the end of every meeting.

I'd have thought it would be more helpful to encourage people to give themselves up to their own inner power.

I'm sure you can do it, Seacliff - good luck!

I've just looked at their website Seacliff
It wouldn't be for me either!

It's true Luckygirl - I DO eat for that reason. I have always had fairly low self esteem, but it has got worse in recent years.

I know all about what to eat/portions etc. That all goes out the window if I'm feeling bad.

I can't really afford a regular counsellor, and from what I've heard from others it can be tricky finding one who's right for you, not sure where to start. There are probably a lot of people who feel like me, and I wish there was help within the NHS even if we had to make some contribution to costs.

I don't easily open up to anyone, I do agree I need to get out more and mix with others, which, if it goes well, helps me feel bettter in myself.

I even recently tried going to an Overeaters Anon meeting, but you have to give up yourself up to a higher power, but felt that really wasn't for me.

If someone's only pleasures or idea of a 'treat' is food, food and more food jingl that's sad. There's more to life than eating.

Seacliff - you have been very honest, but the thing that stands out for me is that you eat to fill an emotional vacuum. Maybe you need to tackle that alongside the practical dieting/exercise. A counsellor maybe? You need someone to walk alongside you in this challenge; someone who can help you understand that you are not your weight and that you have value as a human being whatever your size.

Some other practical suggestions, some of which have already been mentioned....

- put meals on a smaller plate - that way it looks like a bigger meal than it is.
- eat slowly - chew each mouthful a set number of times and savour the flavours.
- drink a pint of water before you start each meal.
- start exercise slowly and build up - e.g. walk for 15 minutes every day for a month; then increase the time month by month
- have reasonable expectations of weight loss - if you set your sights too high you will get frustrated and eat to comfort yourself.

I do wish you lots of luck in your endeavours - it is a hard challenge.

I hope it works for you Seacliff.
My friend keeps posting on Facebook about how she has taken another bagful of clothes which are now much too big for her to the charity shop, followed by pictures of herself in gorgeous new outfits!

Actually, the personal trainer idea would probably work best for me - not in a gym but meeting up and being made (encouraged) to push myself. If I can just make myself take the first big step of booking it, I'm now going to look up any locally. Thanks for suggestion x

Thanks Alea and others for the encouragement x