Plant based eating and veganism

Don't beat yourself up. Most people have been brought up in a culture where eating the bodies of other animals is seen as normal. I've been veggie for so long I no longer think of animals as food. Its what you get used to. If everyone cut down on meat a little it would be better for the environment, health and the animals.

Well I have bought ‘How not to die ‘ book and the cookery book to go with it.
I am loving the food, but when I delve any deeper online into plant based eating I feel like such a bad person for enjoying meat ?

The fact that rural Scotland has not succumbed to the industrial scale factory farms that abound in many parts of the western world is to its credit, though, much the worst examples of farming practices does go on behind closed doors. We are fortunate that we can transport food from different regions around the country, so areas which have bountiful arable land can sell their produce in areas which are more inhospitable. Salad does not have to stop at Scotland!
I am now labelled above as having a mental dysfunction as I choose not to eat animal products! I never knew.
Also - sharp teeth are useful for eating multitudes of crunchy , chewy foods,- nuts, seeds etc, not real evidence for having to eat meat. nearly all mammals have canine teeth, not all are meat eaters some of the sharpest belong to herbivores - hippos , gorillas for example.

It would be nice if one could avoid certain items altogether, all the time, but it isn't always an option or budget friendly.

Having said that, I am not beholden to any one diet in particular. Wherever possible however, I choose grass fed/organic dairy products, eggs (from cage free vegan hens) 'all natural' poultry without hormones or antibiotics and grass fed beef or lamb. I buy lots of organic produce (free of herbicides, fungicides pesticides). I also take D3 supplements and avoid farm raised fish.

Hubby and I do a lot of baking too, especially bread and an occasional dessert ......it helps us to cut our sugar, salt and saturated fat intake to healthier levels.

Not perfect, but a little bit of care here and there does go a long way

UK vegetarians number between 7 and 11 percent of the population and vegans 1.05 though the popularity of the latter group is growing fast amongst the young.

This puts veganism into the extremist box and I would have to say that from what I have seen, read and experienced myself vegans present an alarming polarity with forceful and activist tendencies. The three I have known personally also exhibited signs of mental dysfunction. They were all young women and two were depressed.

Depression, probably linked to vitamin deprivation, seems to have a high correlation with Veganism.

I would have no issue with vegans were they to keep their views to themselves. After all, I am on a strict dieting regime but feel no need to proselytise even though many others could benefit from moderating and refining their intake. It is not pleasant ( or rational) to be bombarded with angry, emotive, subjective, poorly evidenced opinions.

Vegetarianism seems a perfectly acceptable choice to make for whatever reason, ethical, health or aesthetic while veganism is a step too far.

I completely disagree, Aepgirl for the reasons cogently expressed by marlowlady.

When you say 'for moral reasons' I presume it means not eating animals. If it were not for the fact that we carnivores eat meat we would never see animals on fields and our farmers would be out of business. If it is for reasons of health that is a different matter, but don't forget the reason we have sharp teeth is because we are part of the food chain that is designed to eat meat. Generally I think veganism, in particular, is a fashionable fad.

I'm not particularly bothered by what other people eat but I have to say, I don't recognise the picture painted here of cattle-rearing.

I live in rural Scotland and I can assure you that the fields abound with cows and their calves, particularly at this time of year, some not 100 yards from my house. The bulls are also kept busy in the traditional way, to judge from the scenes that play out in the fields as I drive past!

We have two cattle farms in my village and their animals seem to live a very happy life, with fields, food and shelter available at all times. A local dairy also sells milk from cows that are allowed to live a natural life, with their calves, a process which means they live longer, too. Local butchers here are open about the slaughtering methods.

I think being careful with what you buy is part of the solution. I buy organic eggs, for instance, because there's no guarantee that freerange eggs haven't been de-beaked. It's just a few pennies more on the shopping bill.

Much of Scotland is only suitable for grazing and the climate precludes growing a big variety of fruit and vegetables. If you're trying to eat as a locavore, as I do, it's quite a challenge!

Vegans aren't "telling anyone else what to eat" - I am just explaining my own choices. Meat eaters tend to sneer and claim a vegan diet is unhealthy, unnatural etc. As we have said before there are cultural, religious and medical factors which explain eating choices, if someone chooses to eat meat products that is up to them, but a bit more awareness of how it is produced on an industrial scale maybe useful. It seems to me that many people don't wish to know that and like their meat in neat little plastic trays with no knowledge of where it comes from.

Just spare a thought for those of us who would perhaps like to be more vegetarian than we are but are obliged to live a life on the "beige" diet due to acute bowel problems. I'm tired of being told what to eat by evangelical vegetarians/vegans. I'm an adult, I make informed choices, but there are medical reasons for my diet.

Very well said, marlowlady

PS I am not talking about eskimos or indigenous tribes or anything remotely like them. They live in a totally different world than we do and have to rely on what they have to survive on. We in the West don't and have so many choices and can therefore choose to make much more wiser choices in the foods we put in our body and not want to contribute to atrocities that go on every day in farms and slaughter houses.

Why is it that when speaking about veganism, people start throwing insults, like how narrow minded vegans are and that they don't care about third world countries etc? The way most vegans think and feel is to do as little harm as possible and to assume they only care for animals and not humans is totally inaccurate. As I said before, when it comes to food, not only are we very defensive but the very fact that veganism bothers some people could very well mean that there are some underlying issues there. Ask yourself, would you like to be in their place? I think not.

Veganism isn't going to happen overnight. The agricultural and dairy industries provides meat and dairy by demand, so as that demand decreases, so will the number of animals cruelly brought into existence just to satisfy our taste buds. I for one would rather there be a lot less animals that are free to live in peace. Animals are going extinct every day in the natural world, more often than not due to the greed of man, so its a little foolish to think that cows and sheep etc., would overrun us or alternatively, disappear totally.

Where do we get off thinking animals are inferior to us and there for us to do with what we want, without no empathy or understanding that they are living beings and wish to live as much as any human being? There are a couple of terms called specism and carnism and I would suggest people research those terms before making uninformed comments.

PS. for those who think animals are killed "humanely": the word actually means compassion and there is no way whatsoever, no matter how you justify it, to humanely take any animal's life when it merely wants to exist and live.

I have been a vegetarian for nearly fifty years. My choice, Never looked back.

Some cultures don't eat meat. Some cultures don't eat dairy. You are not comparing like with like. Eskimos (Inuits) exist on a meat/fish based diet, but that is in the absence of many other choices. Vegans don't say everyone in every environment should or could be vegan. We have many more choices than Eskimos so are fortunate that we can choose to be vegan (or not), Eskimos not in the same category.

I too eat very little meat and try to do so as ethically as possible. But as my son pointed out how on eart can vegetarians be correct or vegans even if you consider how they would manage if they were Eskimo ?

Well one poster seemed to be blaming vegans for global inequality which I thought a bit extreme. Yes, tastes change and farming will change. If more people want to consume less meat and more grains, beans etc then the market will respond.

Farmers are businessmen or women. Farming changes all the time, just look at the diversification that has taken place over the last 50 or more years. Veganism is not taking away farmer's livelihoods, it is a change in the same way that other changes in eating habits or farm subsidies relating to set aside or government policies or the market push changes. And farmers change accordingly. The world of meat and two veg on Sunday followed by mince on Tuesday etc is long gone.

I eat very little meat but am not a full-blown veggie. There's no way I could give up dairy - I love it and would hate not to ever again enjoy lashings of butter on a slice of bread, or cream in a cake etc.
Veganism seems to be taking vegetarianism to an extreme degree and I simply couldn't do it.

I am all for trying to ensure that animals are allowed to live as natural a life as possible, but I have no intention of becoming vegan. I hope no-one takes offence at that, as I am happy to respect their choice.

I only buy meat from shops that support animal welfare - I don't know whether the movement has spread to the UK yet.

Here some farmers are keeping bulls again, which I regard as a step in the right direction regarding both dairy and meat herds. I buy free-range eggs, and pork certified to have come from pigs that lead an outdoor life. Rarely eat veal, as it is still difficult to know how the calves were kept.

Sorry.
Us meat-eaters.

geri the OP asked what everyone thought about abstaining from meat and dairy eating, from a health, a moral and an environmental standpoint, and then went on to give we meat-eaters a few lectures on the subject.
So I don’t think anyone has strayed from the OP at all.

But its not just vegans who buy these foods, and I agree we should look at the social and environmental impact of choices that are available. many people ( not just vegans!) buy foods that in the past would have been thought of as "exotic" which has an impact on different countries and I'm all for improving the lot of those in poorer countries, and if this means paying more for such foods or goods they produce I'm all in favour, and in trying to be more sustainable in food production, Don't blame vegans for this situation though. ( I think the argument has strayed somewhat from the original)

humptydumpty: organic farming provides better welfare for cows
www.ethicalconsumer.org/ethicalreports/dairy-industry-sector-report/milkandanimalwelfare.aspx

standards do vary but the Soil Association is generally regarded as best and most reliable
www.soilassociation.org/organic-living/whyorganic/better-for-animals/organic-cows/

from an ethical standpoint Soil Association Organic milk and cheese is probably the best to buy - it's more expensive because of the better welfare but it is delicious and can be consumed in the knowledge that you haven't distressed heifers and calves

I agree with you eglantine
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/opinion/sanctimonious-vegans-well-look-closely-diets-global-impact/amp/
“Yes, vegans care deeply about animal welfare and the environment, but not about the farmers and their families who are now paying the price for this “lifestyle movement”. Underneath the most popular vegan crops lie buried scandals and tragedies.

The exceptionally knowledgeable food writer Joanna Blythman warned about this five years ago: “There is an unpalatable truth to face for those of us with a bag of quinoa in the larder. The appetite of countries such as ours has pushed up prices to such an extent that poorer people in Peru and Bolivia, for whom it was once a nourishing staple food, can no longer afford to eat it.”