Plant based eating and veganism

I am not sure I could be - but I certainly believe we should eat less meat, and from good farming and husbandry.

Good meat is expensive- but then if you eat less of it- and maybe 2 days a week without- then the cost balances out.

Been thinking about it all night actually- I watched a cow giving birth late afternoon yesterday in the field behind us. She had quite a time of it, and when the calf came, she was so gentle, and licked it and licked it lovingly- and nudged it again and again until it stood up- then fell again- then got up again and fed- blood and placenta still hanging out.

Farmer came and took the calf- and the cow was distraught and crying like any mother would. I cried with her - and been upset ever since. Here, veal is popular- so if male it will be raised in a dome with a tiny enclosure and go to butchers at a few months- if female- she will have the same fate as her mother- giving birth time after time and the calf taken away very soon after- so she will produce milk for us.

Don't think I could be vegan ... but- maybe more of ut should be witness to what happens, and think.

Of course we are thinking about it - this is why many prefer to buy local organic, its not just vegans who buy avocados btw.

want not wasn't

Yes but sidetracking to the clearing of land for cattle doesn't make what's happening in Kenya any less true. A bit of a politicians trick?

Or saying that meat eaters don't think about what their doing.

Or accusing me of taking the moral highground.

I'm just giving you some information that you don't want to think about because it doesn't fit I with what you wasn't. So let's ignore it eh?

I think you should ask the vegan society about their stance, and to oppose veganism by claiming to be worried about people in poor countries having to supply the west with exotic foods, is certainly taking the moral high ground. Maybe those suppliers find this gives them a better livelihood. Most vegans I know object to buying supermarket veg wrapped in single use plastics, and tend to buy organic veg boxes etc. I am concerned about the environmental impact of my choices, I wonder how many people stuffing their faces with hormone fed burgers are?

Eglantine on the subject of the impact of veganism on poor countries, please consider:

"The Amazon rainforest has been facing severe deforestation problems for several decades — it has lost about a fifth of its forest in the past three. While there are many causes, one of the main causes is cattle ranching, particularly in Brazil. Trees are cut and the land is converted into a pasture for cattle grazing. According to one report, an estimated 70 percent of deforestation in the Amazon basin can be attributed to cattle ranching. Using these numbers, cattle ranching in the Amazon has resulted in the loss of an area larger than the state of Washington."

I've been vegan since I was 11 (56 now) and I can remember my poor mother making me various food items from lentils, lentils and more lentils. Things have improved so much, with big brands such as Linda McCartney and now Quorn selling so many vegan items. Ocado is a lovely place to shop, you can enter "vegan" in the search bar and wow - the choice is amazing. Vegan cheese is improving too, with Sainsbury and Tesco both doing reasonable versions. I'm not a preacher but LOVE helping those who would like to go vegan and need help so if anyone has any questions on how to manage it feel free to ask. My first Post by the way so hope I'm not breaking any rules or anything by mentioning brands.

I would like to recommend Tesco "free from" cheese, which tastes almost the same as cheddar. It is made fromcoconut!!

I'm not preaching. But you do hear vegans saying its more environmentally friendly, someone said it would save millions of lives, it's a more responsible way to live. Which may all be true in the long run, but just at the moment the rapid rise of veganism in the rich, powerful West is causing a lot of hardship and environmental damage in the poorer parts of the world.

Does the Vegan Society have a view point? How do vegans deal with this morally or do they just employ an "as long as I'm alright" stance?

I just think these are questions that ought give asked and information that ought to be out there, not ignored or subject to sidetracking.

As a veg/pescatarian, my love affair with cheese continues unabated.
This calf cannot be reunited with her mother so the pull is having no effect.

Eglantine, the vegans I know shop at farmers' markets, so that is fairly locally grown stuff. Also they get veg boxes from local farms, and this is in London! Daughter used to organise the local transition group. Those are grassroot community projects that aim to increase self-sufficiency to reduce the potential effects of peak oil, climate destruction, and economic instability. She helped with a gardening project to grow food in the community centre garden and helped set up a gardening club after school at grandson's junior school. The children enjoyed learning how to plant and grow and particularly how to harvest and eat! The centre also had a cafe that used produce from the garden. She even built raised beds in the gardens of the council block she lived in then and planted fruit trees that bore fruit.

I agree not all plants ethically sourced - but using this to justify eating highly unethically produced meat products is not a valid argument.

The Uk imports lots of meat as well, well over 50% food is imported, meat production uses far more land, water and other resources and produces more pollution than arable farming. Food has to be grown / imported for animal feed, this could be converted to food suitable for human consumption and is far more environmentally friendly. I suggest you see the film Forks over Knives - its on Netflix.

The issue of the sustainability of the food supply is another topic!
personally I try to buy seasonal produce from local suppliers farmers markets local greengrocer etc so I don’t need to be taking moral high grounds! I don’t feel I should have to justify my choice of a meat free diet I don’t preach to meat eaters and do not expect to preached at back

No vegans worried about the poor people in other countries then? Or the environmental impact of shipping the quantities of vegetables and fruit that make up a vegan diet and can't be grown in Britain.
The Independent published research that shows it is more environmentally friendly to eat a couple of lamb chops from Britain than avocados from Kenya. Where land has been turned over from crops that support families to crops like avocados that are more profitable for export to the west.

Come on vegans, engage in a debate. At the moment you don't exactly have the moral high ground!

There are lots of non-meat foods now that make catering easy for vegans. Linda McCartney range does very tasty sausage rolls and pies and a variety of sausages, pasties, burgers etc with all kinds of vegetables, soya, and lentils in them. The main supermarkets do their own meatfree ranges and there are also dairy free cheeses and milk and ice cream. I haven't found a cheese as good as ones made from milk, but some are okish. I don't like soya milk or almond milk on cereal but actually prefer porridge and weetabix with water and no milk. I eat meat and fish, but very much less than I used to. Vegan daughter's dishes are delicious, some using tofu or lentils etc. Her cakes are great too. Who would have thought beetroot and chocolate make a good combination? I do worry about the cows losing their calves and the way animals are slaughtered, but also about how we import foods other countries then have to do without. Wouldn't it be nice if everywhere had small farms close by that had a few happy cows, who kept their calves and still gave a little milk, and we all used less, and if all the animals fed locals, who could see they were well cared-for. And if more farms changed to growing vegetables and beans and beans and lentils maybe they could fill the gap left.

I signed up to Veganuary this year. Always been veggie, but my family are concerned that I will have to take supplements for as long as I hold out (sic!). So far have loved every meal and my only quibble is with vegan butter which I tried making, not very successfully, but practice makes perfect. Two other issues - if you live with carnivores/pescatorians etc you've got to cook separately and to date have not found a really good milk substitute which works with real coffee - following suggestion have gone with the Oaty Barista milk, which is pretty good, but not the same. My other hassle is that I do like boiled, scrambled, fried and poached egg on toast for lunch or a light supper and although silken tofu makes a good alternative to scrambled, there are no ways round the others!

Ive been veggie for over 50 years and now vegan. Its a much healthier diet in my opinion, than the over reliance on processed food that many people rely on in the UK, yet vegans who prefer a plant based diet are sneered at. This idea that meat and dairy are somehow essential is obviously not the case, there are cultures where dairy is not consumed, for example, cows milk is designed for cows at the end of the day. If meat eaters had to use their teeth to kill their food I might accept that argument, and if they had to visit a slaughterhouse where animals are killed on an industrial scale, I wonder how many of them would wish to do that. we have so many food choices these days if someone chooses not to eat meat or dairy then thats up to them, if someone wishes to fill their supermarket trolley with packets of crisps, biscuits , cakes, sausages etc ditto. But don't tell me that is a healthier choice. Without industrial factory farming cows, hens etc would not become extinct, they have been bred unnaturally, and there would still be the wild varieties of chicken, oxen etc..

I don't think that humans need cow's milk, which is the right formula for calf. Easy to get correct vitamins from a varied diet. I have been vegetarian for many year and recently became vegan. I had not idea until recently of the intense cruelty involved in dairy production. Cows skipping about in green pasture is a myth for so many dairy animal and what do you think happens to the calves who never get to drink their mother's milk?
I stopped eating meat after see a press photo of a live pig who survived having its throat cut and was trying to climb of a tub of boiling water. That was enough for me.

I have been a vegetarian for over 30 years (and raised 3 vegetarians), we are a healthy lot! So I don’t agree that it is vital to eat meat to stay healthy? it is important for vegetarians and vegans to consider a well balanced diet and all of the vegetarians I know do this! Because I am vegetarian I eat a lot of vegetables and fruit so easily make the recommended 5 portions a day, my food is generally high in fibre and low in saturated fats and salt all healthy choices.
I am not cruel Nemosmum! I haven’t attacked meat eaters so I don’t appreciate a comment like this at those of us who choose a meat free diet!

Sorry but I don't go along with this. We are meat eaters - though I don't eat a lot of meat - and our teeth as far as I'm aware indicate this. Cutting out elements that we need to keep ourselves healthy sounds like hard work and opens us up to all sorts of health problems I was brought up in a farming community and have no problem with eating meat but I appreciate that others feel otherwise

What cruel and thoughtless people vegetarians/vegans are! Millions of animals would never even come into existence if it wasn't for farming them. Of course, one would never condone cruelty, but we have the best animal welfare laws and regulations in the world here in the UK. Farmed animals will never go hungry, never be in danger from predators and will be humanely and rapidly dispatched when the time comes. I'd go for that! I have known quite a number of vegetarians and vegans (some in the family) and most have abandoned their vegetarianism. Three have taken up small-holding and now eat their own animals.

I do get my eggs from a very local free range farm, where the hens are wandering all over, and look happy!

Is anybody worried about the people in third world countries who have lost their staple food items such as quinoa to the sudden rise of veganism in the West?
They are now going hungry.

Shouldn't we grow our own first and make a planned tradition in diet? Or is our search for health and long life all that matters?

Does the Vegan Society bear a responsibility in this? A concern for animal suffering but no thought to human distress?

I eat eggs too, but from my own happy, garden hens.