Plant based eating and veganism

I don't eat meat or cheese but eat fish for health reasons.
You need to take B12 supplement if you don't eat meat, it's difficult to get this without.
My other supplements are Vit D and for more than 20 yrs I've been taking Omega 3 and Glucosamine I don't know if it's because of that but I don't have any joint problems at all and I'm in my 70s.

Jenpax, if you are still reading this thread, would you please indicate which spread is olive oil if possible without any palm oil?

I have given up milk because of the sort of thing that Humptydumpty wrote about. I have just begun this regime and so far discovered I like almond 'milk' and oat'milk' but not soya 'milk' ,unfortunately as the soya is cheaper.

The packaging of these veggy substitiutes is waxy Tetrapack material with a modern spout thing to seal it so you don't have to open it with a pair of scissors. I have still to investigate the price difference between the packs from the chill cabinets and those from the ordinary shelves where they stock long- life juice or cow milk .

I do know that tomato juice and orange juice off the long -life shelf are much cheaper than chilled juices but are the same product. Coop sells great tomato juice for £1 a litre!

For the lady who mentioned that this was like hard line politics and her choices ... anything can be labelled political nowadays it seems. However, when it comes to choice and life, then the poor animals that end up on people's plates never have a choice. They are tortured and mutilated in the most obscene ways, that none of us would ever wish on our worst enemies (if we indeed have any lol). We have a choice to show compassion with everything we buy and every meal we prepare and that's certainly not politics, its having empathy and showing benevolence by expanding our moral compass.

Haha Merlot, that reminds me of the two Kune Kune pigs at Shugborough Estate in Staffordshire.
They were called Trinny and Susannah

Gordon Ramsay will jump on any bandwagon. He once kept pigs in his back garden so he could 'know where they came from'

One was called Delia

I see Gordon Ramsay is giving veganism a try!

Merlot, my mum, (90yo) says her area in S Wales was v fortunate during the war in that they always had plenty to eat. They were surrounded by farms and although there were items they couldn't get, there were adequate supplies of other things to make up for it. I'm sure the picture was much grimmer in the cities.

I agree, Geri, so much processed food just can't be good for us. And cake! Why is there so much cake around nowadays? I like cake as much as anyone but it's everywhere now and in massive slices, too.

There maybe a debate about the healthiness or otherwise of wartime diets, but to claim that the UK current diet of over 50% processed foods, lots of industrially produced meat and dairy products is the optimum diet for good health and much better than any other available is a not something many would agree with. Mediterranean countries have a healthy diet with olive oil, fresh fruit and veg, smaller portions of meat and far less reliance on ready meals, processed burgers etc. Less than 12% of food bought in Italy and Greece is processed, people in those countries aren't "starving" either.

merlot obviously there were wartime shortages, but still rationing gave a much healthier diet overall than before or since. There's an interesting article (amongst many!)

www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/574988/War-time-diet-good

Many people suffered from deficiencies as a result of wartime shortages. There might be a rosy view of digging for victory but rickets, scurvy and anaemia were common place in towns and cities.

Why do you think children were fed supplements like Parish's food and cod liver oil throughout the fifties?

Humptydumpty there is a lot of evidence that consuming trans fats found in margarine and other processed foods increases risk for both cardiovascular disease and diabetes.
In what ways was the war-time diet better balanced?
There is not really a consensus on what a properly balanced diet is, anyway. Many people don’t agree with the NHS recommendations for low-fat, high carbohydrate diet for a start.

I don't suppose people ate a huge amount of trans-fats during the war, despite margarine, because there were no highly processed foods available, unlike today.

jane, I don't know about that, only that people had a much healthier diet then. Maybe it was because the diet was better-balanced?

humptydumpty what about all the margarine that people had to eat instead of butter?
War-time margarine was full of trans-fats that have now been banned because of their association with heart disease.

Actually jane I believe that's not true - the wartime diet was very carefully planned to provide a balance of all required nutrients, it was not only the lower sugar.

Geri or perhaps she was being deliberately obtuse.

geri I doubt whether anyone who has bothered to post on this thread eats very much ‘super processed food’.
The wartime diet was only healthier because people had very little sugar in their diet.

I don’t think the poster above meant people who are starving .. maybe people who have fewer choices can still have a healthy, if not healthier, diet. It doesn’t have to be super processed food versus starvation. Think the U.K. in WW2 when there was rationing. People weren’t starving, had fewer choices than we do now, but in many ways had a healthier diet.

Azie what colour is the sun on your planet?

How weird it must be to think that those in poorer countries where people are starving have a healthier diet ??

Here's a good link:
nutritionstudies.org/avoid-gas-bloating-plant-based-diet/

Seriously , and perhaps embarrassingly(sorry), but when I make leguminous food I get flatulence(wind). I understand this is a common problem for veggy people . I need to know if human intestines become accustomed to the vegetable protein and deal with it more efficiently.

There's quite a lot about veggy flatulence on the Web. Here is one of them:

happyherbivore.com/2012/01/flatulence/

Is this really a thread about the pros and cons of veggie v vegan v meat eating as a personal food choice. Assuming we are allowed choices? It all seems a little like hard line politics to me.

But being 'lucky' enough to be able to wander into any supermarket and choose to buy what we want (which is not true for everyone in the UK by a long way) surely carries a responsibility with it to choose wisely and in ways that will benefit the most as well as benefit the planet and the animals whose flesh we perhaps choose to eat.

No one is forcing anything on anyone, you can ignore the hardliners if you want but also think about what you choose to eat. Over reacting suggests a pricked conscience, maybe allow that to gently lead you to a healthier way of life. Those living in 'unlucky' (?!) countries ironically probably have a healthier diet consisting of smaller portions, grains and vegetables with just a little meat. The evidence is out there concerning diet and chronic illness but you can of course decide you don't care. No problem!

Geri it certainly does!

DH and I are gradually phasing out animal meat in favour of vegetarian and vegan alternatives. We do not intend to become complete vegans but envisage a time when we will rarely eat animal flesh and dairy. One of the main reasons we will not become completely vegan is because we keep hens and personally we see no major issue with eating the eggs they lay. Our hens are healthy and well cared for and will lay eggs even if we didn't want them to! I love meat but don't feel that slautering living creatures just for food is any longer defensible.