The lessons of Birmingham Schools

Not sure I was making sense either JessM, when mentioning the incident at one of our local schools. Yes, many laws are derived from religious laws and in the UK our laws are underpinned by the christian/judeo faith/culture in our heritage.

I guess it is a valid point though. People are welcome to their own religious beliefs and practices. It's when they want to impose them on everyone - even those who are members of other religions, that it becomes problematic.
Strange to think though that if these governors in Birmingham had been savvy enough to change the status of the school to faith schools they might well be beyond criticism.

I am currently working in the Middle East and can assure you that the type of behaviour being perpetrated in the Birmingham (and probable other) schools would not be tolerated here and especially in the home countries that most of the perpetrators come from. Maybe those perpetrators should endure the same treatment that they would serve to apostates and the like in their own countries.

Religion should be kept out of schools it only promotes division.

Good blog by Ghaffar Hussein on the vexed issue of "British values".

I agree, good blog.

Good blog, thatbags. I wonder what Cameron and Gove think of it.

I'm sure they applaud it just as much as you do, durhamjen. Why wouldn't they? After all, it was Gove's idea in the first place.

(I agree, good blog)

I don't know where you're finding these messed up schools. The ones round here are doing fine. Especially the ones my grandson attends, and the one the my DD teaches at. Both doing a grand job.

I think it is just in areas of the country where there is a high muslim population that concern is being raised. Hard line muslims are scary! Dangerous and scary! We need to guard against them in this country.

(I wish we could guard against them in Iraq too )

We're not finding them jingle did you not notice this has been a major news item for the last couple of weeks with 2 cabinet ministers falling out publicly about it?

Yeah. About the Birmingham ones. Not countrywide.

Investigations going on in Bradford schools as well now, apparently.

And right back at yer jessm. for luck.

"hard line" anything is scary Jingle - including hard line attacks on a particular faith. Dismissing the difficulties being experienced in some parts of the country because the schools in your area are ok is an interesting approach to discussion.

For me the crux of the problem is that there is very little control of what schools are doing now. Their data is scrutinised by OfSted every 3 years, but in between, lay governors with little knowledge and possible axes to grind just go their own sweet way. The multitude of different schools of varying types just compounds the problem.

I find fanatics of any faith very frightening, but the rise of extreme and organised Islamic sects especially so. In Iraq they appear to be driver by hatred, blood lust and a promise of glory in 'the next world'.

That was rather off the OP, sorry.

As many of us have pointed out, local accountability is lacking. Bring back the LEAs and give them back their former powers and add to them the right to work with academies.

Some UK Christian fundamentalist schools believe the world was created in seven days. I understand that this idea is even more prevalent in the USA (no surprises there).

tldhttp://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/nov/30/free-schools-creationism

Couldn't agree more, Aka. Even the worst LEAs (and there were some useless ones) would exercise some control but their advisory services are irreparably disbanded - many years expertise dissipated at a stroke from entirely doctrinaire motives.

Quoting iam64: " Dismissing the difficulties being experienced in some parts of the country because the schools in your area are ok is an interesting approach to discussion."

That is a silly comment. I am not dismissing the troubles in the Birmingham schools. My point is that this thread is turning into a "aren't all schools in this country in a dreadful state" thing. They aren't.

If you think Muslim extremists are people who would sit well in this country, consult the people of Iraq.

I think many of the remaining people in Iraq might have a few things to say about us and the USA too.

Yep! A mess and a total nightmare.

Interesting to here 2 year 10 students from Park View on R4 this morning. They were very fed up with media harassment in the middle of exam season and scathing about OFSTED.

To quote that Mandy woman, well they would be, wouldn't they?

What on earth do you mean petallus there is absolutely no suggestion that any of the pupils are extremist in their views, just that the school management has not actively been "combatting extremism" what ever that looks like when you see it happening.
Not at all happy about feeling that the whole school has been labelled as extremist. I feel very sorry for them. The girl was a very articulate young woman.

You've got to feel sorry for the kids. Most of them perfectly innocent, decent and hardworking. And sorry for the parents too. (Would anyone want their sons going to Syria and suchlike to fight?)