Returning to teaching.

Never! It'sa crazy idea, and totally out of touch with reality (as per usual)!

I trained as a secondary teacher 'late', when our youngest started primary school- and loved my career, even though it was a times very stressful and exhausting. I stopped aged 55, but I just didn't have it in me anymore, physically and emotionally. I have great memories, and I think I was a fairly good teacher- but the thought of going back to it now, aged 63, fills me with horror and terror- truly.

Cameron or Gove should go and teach in a large inner city comprehensive on a Friday afternoon before putting forwards daft ideas like that. Of course some age groups and subjects, and particularly some areas/schools, are easier to teach than others.

A primary school in a leafy suburb or a private school with classes of 15 selected kids, I could still cope with ... but even so, no Ta.

Moi non plus!

"Somehow I don't think you are as au fait with current conditions as you would have me believe."

I hope you are not suggesting I am lying!

At work this morning I accompanied two colleagues (headteachers) to another school. The school, in a fairly deprived area (37% FSM), had been very successful in moving from an OFSTED judgement of Requires Improvment (RI) to Good. Part of my job is to help these two heads to make that journey. I work in schools every week. Some are 'Outstanding' others are not. Some serve very 'leafy' areas , others do not! I work with 7 schools very closely and others more intermittently.

My point was, re moaning and groaning, is that is what I see in the press / hear on radio etcand it does not match what I see in my day to day work, meeting with class teachers, head teachers and teaching assistants

No of course I don't think you are lying. But I think perhaps you are looling at it from a primary perspective?
I think you didn't make it clear that the accusation of moaning and groaning was directed at the media. I can't scroll back easily on this silly device but I'm pretty sure I asked early on whether you were accusing teachers of this.
I think we'll have to agree to differ on the increase in wiorkload and initiative fatigue. I'm sure what we do agree on is that teachers work damned hard in difficult circumstances.

I left teaching years ago - having decided I'd just had enough of it. I don't regret that and I'd never go back, even /especially if Cameron begged on bended knee.
Atqui

My professional experience is in primary but I also know many current secondary teachers, including my brother so no just based on primary teachers..who have just as much work to do as their secondary colleagues!
Also my colleagues on the team I work in includes secondary specialists /practitioners.
I agree totally about initiative overload & believe that many of them are unnecessary/ unproven etc! There are legitimate concerns about how some initiatives are implemented.

To gain back respect and to be valued by society the teaching profession needs to present a really positive image to counter the continual assaults from DfE et al. I stick by my assertion that the vast majority of teachers I know and come into regular contact with are hardworking and very positive & professional. That is why I am tired of hearing about teachers moaning and groaning. It feeds negativity and it often is not the reality.

Is it possible that both arguments are valid - it's just that each side is looking at things from a different perspective?

My feeling is that many teachers are fed up with all sorts of things that impact upon the way they teach and how much time has to be devoted to documenting what they teach rather than actually teaching. Despite this, I am sure that there are still many teachers who find their work fulfilling and who genuinely want to, and do, help children to do the very best they can.

However, if this continual rubbishing of schools and teachers continues, I worry that even the most dedicated people will become frustrated and demoralised.

Let's cut out the phrase 'teachers moaning and groaning' shall we Penstemon ?

Just feeling a little sad when threads stray away from the issue and become personal.

Penstemmon and I are having a discussion about the public image of teachers. There is nothing personal about it * MiceElf* so please don't try to stir up bad feeling where none exists feel sad
We have offered to 'agree to differ' and we agree on more things than we disagree on.

I have suggested that WE (note the plurality) leave out a phrase that neither of us like.

Threads do 'stray away' that's the nature of discussion.

I've read the 'discussion', and one the comments, which was challenged by Pen, was unpleasant in tone. It was robustly challenged.

As for two people having a 'discussion' I wasn't aware that threads were exclusive to two people.

Your last response suggests that that you are well aware of the impact of your comment.

Aka You said to Penstemmon

"You know 100s of teachers. All of us in the profession know 100s, lets not turn this into a pissing competition."

"Somehow I don't think you are as au fait with current conditions as you would have me believe."

Both of those remarks are highly personal.

I have another suggestion.
Why don't you leave off your habit of making nasty comments and accusations and then crossing them out? (The "so please don't try to stir up bad feeling where none exists feel sad thing to MiceElf in case you're wondering).

We are way off the subject of the thread here- and I agree that negativity is not helpful to the profession, or to the children/students (more importantly).

My point however was that, even if you love the job and are totally dedicated- it is NOT a job for retirees- as it needs tons of energy, hard-work and enthusiasm. Just like parenting full-time is not for retirees either. I was a good teacher, I think- but at 63 I just could not do it anymore, really.

He said, she said....for heavens sake! No point in trying to explain is there. Always the same ones having a dig. I'll leave the thread to you

My primary school teacher friend retired at 64 and now at 67 fits a lot into every day - studying with the OU, working her very large kitchen garden, going to painting classes and book club, shopping, lunching with friends, chairing the local history club, voluntary political work. She fills every day for five or more hours and has lots of energy, but she maintains this is a doddle compared to her 7 till 5 pm day teaching 30 plus 7 and 8 year olds and all that entailed. Very few retired teachers, much as they loved their job, could keep up with the physical activity and pressure of teaching children. Pensioners retraining as teachers? Don't large groups of children need the daily energy and enthusiasm of a classroom teacher who can charge up and down and keep their wits about them?

There may be other good reasons why retired teachers might not want to go back. The rules about pensions have changed so many times but I'm pretty sure if you took early retirement, for whatever reason, it was understood that you wouldn't then return to paid employment as a teacher. You could take up other paid work. Or maybe with a different employer?

I think the proposal was for retirees from other professions to go into teaching not bring back retired teachers!
They hope the retired bankers will teach economics, or retired newspaper editors lead on Media Studies or maybe retired politicians teach Ethics!

I read an interesting article about statistics. Apparently the figures for employment issued by the ONS state that 40% of those in education are in private jobs.
I haven't managed to get my brain to work on that one.

Penstemmon, the proposal was probably for retirees from other professions to go into teaching because they knew that no retired teacher would go back. They have spent so many years telling us we are rubbish, we are not going to be conned again.

To get back to the thread ................. NOT BL...Y LIKELY !

Taking redundancy from teaching when it was offered was the best thing I ever did.

Loved teaching, hated the crap that went with it.

That's the sad thing about teaching. Most teachers [from those that I know] love teaching but burn out because of all the stuff that goes with it. Michael Gove seems to be the straw that has broken a lot of backs recently. But why should it bother him as he and his will all go to private schools anyway .

He and his... Does he have any children? I know he has a wife, but I've never imagined little Goves.
Actually, I've just remembered that he has a daughter who was bullied at school, I think, for being his daughter. On another thread, I think.

Possibly ever so slightly ''Off the main drag.''
One set of words that keeps appearing is - ''hard working''.
Politicians don't anymore speak of ''Working people'', but of ''Hard working people.'' There has been much use of similar sets of words concerning teachers and teaching in this discussion too.
Since when has it been a virtue to work HARD?
Efficiently; effectively; enthusiastically; with dedication; ...YES.
All of those require thought, planning, expertize, knowledge of the client, ....
Most of the 100s of teachers I've met over the years in my long service as a school Governor have demonstrated the professional skills necessary to be efficient; effective; etc.
I'm not sure that a crash course in Working Hard in a classroom will result in retired people gaining the specialist professional skills necessary to be a teacher - but who knows.
After all the Govt is going to FORCE:
unemployed people to Volunteer to work in Voluntary organizations, and
people with mental health issues to undergo treatments identified by Office staff working for Agencies like ATOS.
So perhaps it WILL work?

Mr Gove sends his children to state schools. ( reply to durhamjen)