Class size for primary schools

My first class, in Battersea (1972), of 'middle infants' (Y1) had 37 children of various different ethnic backgrounds, I had a 'primary helper' on three afternoons who mixed paints and kept the room tidy..no expectation that she would deliver any sort of teaching. occasionally she may have 'heard' kids read. It was great fun!
Though I taught all year groups up to Y6 in my career my last class was also Y1 in Merton (1994) & I had 30 kids of various different ethnic backgrounds, I had a classroom assistant each morning. She did a variety of things but it did include more learning support for children. It was still great fun!

When I retired as a HT (2007) the classes all had 30 kids and at least 1 ft TA. In nursery/reception we had qualified Nursery Nurses +TAs. Even in what was perceived as 'leafy Kingston on Thames' we had 44 different languages spoken and 20% of kids on FSM. It was hard work & all great fun!

I am still working in schools as an advisor & still enjoying it!

My DH was beaten and punished regularly at school for being lazy etc. because he was obviously bright but wouldn't do school work properly. He found out as an adult that he's dyslexic.

In my primary school class of 40, the belt was wielded with considerable disciplinary effect. It was used as an 'incentive' to do better in tests though I don't think it had any effect on those poor kids who invariably sat, literally, 'at the bottom of the class'. They would probably, nowadays, have been diagnosed as having 'moderate learning difficulties'.

I have read that these large class sizes were possible because in the fifties, people were still used to wartime discipline. Children and their parents were used to obeying instructions. Apparently that's why holiday camps were so successful too

There were 44 children in my junior school class and 'teaching assistants' were those of us children who finished set work early and were then sent to help the other children who needed assistance.

The problem is that there are so many hoops to jump through and boxes to tick that we've lost sight of the children.

Teachers are told to do it this way, do it that way, do it standing on your head from the corner of the room. I never got my head around the outdoor classroom. Not a way of teaching about nature but having a large wooden shed built, calling it an outdoor classroom and taking the lesson in it. Other lessons had to be outside too. For example when I taught a booster group I had to take them outside for part of numeracy. I got brownie points for using the tyres on the playground for counting and tables practise because it linked numeracy and PE.

All I wanted to do was teach and build on the children's natural love of learning and having new experiences but there was never enough time and the production line process killed the joy in a lot of the children.

Vampire, that's more or less how his mother and I teach my 12 year old grandson at homeschool.

(in response to jingl's post, of course, not yours, pinkprincess! )

Sorry, too...

Inishowen

That was my experience of being at school in the 1950s as well!

One of my teachers kept the strap hanging from a hook on her desk to remind us of what would happen if we misbehaved.
My grandparents used to tell me about getting hit with a stick if they misbehaved at school.

Sorry!

"What is the size of your primary school grandchildren?" (OP)

He's about 4ft tall and perhaps a little bit bigger roundways than he should be.

I went to school in the fifties. There were around 45 in my class. There were no classroom assistants either. Our teachers coped by instilling fear in us! You didn't misbehave when the cane was used on a daily basis.

As I said far too sensible. Saddest memory of being a Year 2 teacher is watching them write their stories in baking heat and then desperately analysing them to find "evidence" of level 3. Because we had to produce the requisite number for the statistics or else....

Unfortunately it won't happen because I not only want to reduce the curriculum but also do away with SATS at the end of Year 2 and the phonics test at the end of Year 1. I wouldn't do away with assessments but they would be teacher assessments based on common sense and work over time rather than a snapshot on a particular day.

Vampirequeen for Secretary of State for Education! I'd vote for you. The trouble is that idea is far too sensible, child and teacher friendly and not at all gimmicky. So no chance then?

I was a primary teacher in an inner city school that taught children who had 24 languages between them. My 5/6 year olds had a timetable the started at 8.50 every morning and continued (apart from two 10 minute breaks and 1 hour for lunch) until 3.15pm. Mornings were filled with Numeracy (this included number, data handling, shape and space, problem solving, measures, money and time) and Literacy. Afternoons were filled with Science, PE, RE, PHSCE, Music, ICT and Topic (which was basically History/Geography/Art/D&T and anything else it was decided we had to fit in). Children had to do 2 hours of Science, PE and RE every week. Friday afternoon was for free play and one to one reading. By the time you allowed for assemblies (provided they didn't over run) and assuming the children were where they should be every minute of the day (as opposed to the toilet, in the cloakroom, getting a drink etc) there was 23.75 teaching hours. If the mornings were taken up with Numeracy and Literacy then that left 10 hours 25 minutes for everything else. Of that time 6 hours was taken up by Science, RE and PE and 2 hours 15 was Friday afternoon. So that left 2 hours 10 mins for PSHCE, Music, ICT and Topic.

Do you see why I think the curriculum needs reducing not expanding?

If I had my way KS1 children would study number, money, time and money. Does a 5 year old need to be able to create and read a bar chart or be able to describe the properties of an ovoid? Literacy would cover reading (including reading for pleasure) and writing (including handwriting). Afternoons should be for PE, Art, RE, Music, ICT and play. PSHCE could be covered in circle time. There should be a story read to the whole class every day so that children can begin to enjoy books rather than seeing them as something to be dissected (This should continue throughout the school with the older children sharing a class book).

PS Said sister has only just retired, ending up as a Head herself. A really lovely lady - and dyslexic too!

MiL informed me last night that she used to have classes of 40 or even more, and that once a film was made of her sister taking a class of eight year olds. Of the 40 minute session, 20 was taken up with sorting out clothing, squabbles, pencils, seating arrangements, runny noses and pupils needing the loo. The only reason the film was made was because the Head wanted to cut the sessions to 30 minutes.

DD told us last night, that in her inner city area, classes of 34 are to be accepted. There are too many children who don't have a place at a school, much less the school of their choice.

I just dug out a photo of my class in primary school - there were thirty-nine of us when I counted up!

Printmiss, everyone has a right to express their opinion so you should go on doing so. I just thought I had missed a change .

Thank to Aka for the Key Stage 1 & 2 curriculum - it looks like little has other than some of the names for the non-core subjects has changed.

janerowena what an interesting post. I am sure the head you worked with was right. When Mr Gove (there is no hiss emoticon ) suggested that we should have fewer teachers, who were highly qualified and better paid, teaching bigger classes (early years I think), comparing it to the Swedish system, he missed the fact that those teachers, although managing larger numbers, are supported by large numbers of teaching assistants. When he realised that there acclaimed results actually cost more the suggestion disappeared

I was a classroom assistant when my son was young, in a state school with 30 or more children per class. It was an excellent school, and the Head told me that the reason her school was so high in the league table was because she spent all the money she could on classroom assistants to help with reading in particular, as once they could read they were also able to cope with exercise books in other subjects. There were two of us per class in the lower years, not just one, and we were certainly kept busy. But not one moment of the form teacher's teaching time was wasted. So when we moved and my son went to a private school, I complained to the governors when they decided to cut costs by getting rid of classroom assistants. I had seen what a difference an extra pair of hands could make.

No, sorry not a teacher, I just think that the basic for learning must be the ability to read - although I have a friend who is unable to do that, and manages very well - so perhaps I should keep quiet. But I do believe that if young children are encouraged to read and discover, then the world is an open book for them. I wonder if here, I might just mention that our son who has learning disabilities, and is unable to speak or write, is able to find in the Radio Times (almost his Bible - if it is not in the R.T. it is not happening!) the programmes he wants to watch/listen to,and we have no idea how he does this, since we do not know how much he understands, but being able to recognise words has obviously opened his world.

National Curriculum KS1 & KS2 (what used to be 'infants' and 'juniors')
Consists of three core subjects
English
Maths
Sciences
Plus:
Art and design
Computing
Design and technology
Geography
History
Languages
Music
Physical education