Home schooling

That is another story! It doesn't take away from the fact that teachers don't want sheep! Everyone seems to manage to buck the trend and come out as individuals - very much so.

Every child is an individual and responds in their own unique way to both teaching and learning. With hindsight I realise that one of my older daughters would have benefited more from home education than the traditional schooling that she had, but she nevertheless fulfilled her potential eventually and went on to gain a first class honours degree whilst working full time. My eldest son did brilliantly at school and it was certainly the right place for him to get a good education as he too went on to get the same class of degree as his sister. As parents and grandparents we all (hopefully) want to do our best for the children in our care and it won't always be the same for each child.

I agree that to a certain extent, there is tight criteria.
But I also think that pupils gain so much by being with much of the human race.

I suppose I should add that I suppose it depends on home life too.

It might depend on there being supportive people on hand to talk through any troubles at school, or any issues that a child may have heard that made them feel uncomfortable there?

I think that a child needs both the regimentation, and the home freedom.

Can I ask what job you did after leaving school Mishap?

I did a degree in social science and a post grad diploma in social work and became a medical social worker, then a photographer, arts outreach worker, singing workshop co-oordinator, vocal conductor, magazine picture editor......etc. A complicated question for a complicated career.

I am passionately interested in education as I hated my own and had concerns about my children's. I try to make a contribution as a school governor and have been successful in helping to initiate changes that have broadened the scope of what the children are offered.

My education gave me the bits of paper to go to uni - but the cost was too high in terms of personal development and happiness. I sometimes feel very sad about those wasted years when I was fit and enthusiastic but under the thumb. I want better for our children.

I do not expect perfection - children have to learn that life is not perfect and accepting that is part of a balanced and happy adult life, but I think we need a lot of changes to give teachers back their freedom and self-respect and to do right by our children.

Sorry to hear you hated school and being 'under the thumb' - but golly things have changed. It is truly possible, for most children- to have both a good academic education and lots of fun, sport, art, music, creativity, etc- and the comprehensive system 'delivered' that brilliantly for our children- and now for our grand-children.

One of my grandchildren is autistic, attended mainstream school but got very little help. Trying to get her to school, which she hated and feared, was a nightmare for eight years.
Both her parents work full-time so home-educating was not an option but, if she had been allowed to stay home, she would have stayed in bed watching TV all of every day. She was utterly disengaged from learning anything, but at least at school she had good friends.
I know a home-educated boy, very bright, who learned masses about the things which interested him but had no contact with other children and no friends.
Home educating needs regulating so the children do actually end up educated.

apricot you say that home educating needs regulating so children do end up educated but my DGC is theoretically being educated at school. The problem is DGC has been assessed as having needs but the school has no resources so no help given. DGC is not being educated as cannot understand the lessons and the teachers do not have time to help one child in the class who is so behind everyone else. They just want the child in school to keep the figures up but can't provide any support. Parents are in one long battle to try and get help as they really want child to go to school if possible.

durhamjen and all those who have offered advice, thank you it gives me hope.

My heart goes to those who truly feel their childrens' special needs are not being met by the 'system'- and then decide to do their own thing. Truly.

But fortunately this is very rare. The issue certainly does provoke strong feelings and reactions. Was thinking about it last night- and realised that one of the reasons I feel so strongly is that the education system here and in the whole of Europe is so different. There are far less options, and the Baccalauréat(e) system means that students have to continue all main subjects (9 or 10) right up to age 18/19- and pass all exams at the end of the year together. Students in the 15-19 range here do 3 years for the Baccalauréat(e)- with maths, physics, biology, chemistry, their own language, 2 foreign languages, history, geography, art/music and pe at minimum. Fail one, have to re-do the whole year. So a home educated child is almost certain of not getting access to uni- unless the parents have a fortune for private tuition and/or have experience teaching at that level for those particular exams. The idea of picking 3 A'Levels of choice is a total anathema anywhere else in the world which is not a direct ex British Colony.

As an example of my concerns, children leave school in Britain unable to read music - unless they specialise. It is the only universal language we have and they are denied it. Instrument lessons are only available to those whose parents can afford it. Music is for all, but our schools perpetuate the idea that it is for the privileged few; and that unless you are exceptionally talented you have nothing musical to either offer or enjoy.

That idea has been knocked on the head at the school where I am governor - I have made everyone's life a pain by grinding on about it and sourced grants until each and every child in the school has these opportunities now. What a joy their recorder group is to the whole community - and the choir. Without someone to fight the corner for this none of it would have happened. It should not be left to the chance occurrence of a committed governor and a head who was willing to listen - it should be very child's right.

As for the system for children with special needs - it is in disarray, as the examples above have shown - and my own experience within our family. A child who does not fit in is in a total bind - unhappy and unsatisfied and educational needs not being met. Again I have to say that I do not blame the teachers.

Mishap it so depended on the importance placed on music by individual LEAs. The authority I worked for had an excellent Music Service which, among other things, offered free instrumental lessons to children and ran two wonderful junior orchestras.

My grandson, who is learning the trombone, is having to pay privately for lessons because there is no peripatetic trombone teacher in his authority.

I think the demise of strong LEAs has led to a terrible falling off in subjects like music. When the LEAs had subject specialist advisers working for them this allowed a team of salaried peripatetic music teachers which could be shared across the LEA by schools.

Now most schools are having to find these teachers for themselves, and because there are less and less of these salaried posts available, there are fewer instrument teachers, especially of certain instruments, willing or able to make a full time career from it.

You can't make blanket statements about 'all schools' in the way that you can't make blanket statements about 'all home educators'. In my area they all learn to read music from year 3.

That is good news Letitia - but the problem lies in the fact that schools are not obliged to do that.

And homeschooling parents are not obliged to do anything at all!

Indeed.

Now, music is very important to you and is a priority. Fine. But for others it will be sport. And for others art- or further maths, or foreign languages, nature knowledge, travel or first aid skills, etc, etc, etc.

In a way, this adds value to the concept of individual, eg home schooling. But on the other hand- where do you stop? Should kids have 20 hrs school days? We tried to add all this to our kids education- and we were lucky we had the skills and finance to enable this one way or another- but there are limits- both in and out the normal system- timewise and financially and with training and paying of staff, etc.

It is absolutely true that 'middle class' kids do end up with the best of both, and yes, it is totally unfair. Our kids went to the local comprehensives, and we supplemented their education to try and cover all the above.

Prepared to accept your children are perfect- but what does one do when a teenager refuses to get out of bed and says 'I won't do it'- I just wonder?

I can read music because my parents thought it a 'good thing'- personally it is very unimportant to me- everything is relative.

Or, as I have witnessed, a parent who hadnt much liked school themselves. So encouraged their child to leave it too at 13/14 when things became a bit difficult, and the parent preferred having them at home anyway.
So home educated. In a very loose sense indeed.

I think that there are largely 3 seperate groups of people who choose to home educate.

Those who think that they can do it better than school - they maybe can.

Those who have children with additional needs, or eg a school phobia or whatever, and the schools in their area are failing them - fair enough, home schooling may be better.

And the third group, which I have just mentioned at the beginning of this post. Those I truly am concerned about.

I think all groups should have monitoring though.

Children need to have the chance to try music - if they never do it again after they leave school, that is fine - at least they have had the opportunity and that door is not closed to them. We do not take the same approach to sport - it is obligatory and there are special school grants for PE equipment, and OfSted has to inspect how that is spent. Why have that for sport and not for music? I am all in favour of the sports grant, but it is an imbalance - sporty children get the chance, and musical children do not - how can that be right?

It is like saying that children should not have the chance to study biology because they might choose to be an artist and therefore do not need to know anything about it. They need to have a taster at everything to open up choices. Learning to read music and enjoy music making at a young age means that the door is not closed to them if that proves to be their bent. If they never have that chance, then their choices are limited.

The class and income divide in musical opportunities is very wrong.

I enjoyed school and so did my children and their partners. The three granddaughters all enjoy school and are very bright.

My grandson is different. What we are doing is definitely in his interests, which is surely what education is about, to teach the individual.

Apricot, my autistic grandson had all the help he could get in the primary school, but because noise is one of his big problems, he could not cope with all the bustle of moving from class to class, and even getting into the school. He was just frightened all the time.

In fact, he loves having a timetable, and we are only rarely allowed to deviate from it.

If schools believe in inclusion, then perhaps they should be smaller, with smaller classes. He would probably have coped in a middle school.

The concept of music as a add-on that is implied in some posts is just the problem in a nutshell.

There is huge evidence that teaching music to young children increases markedly their achievement in core subjects and enhances their skills of co-operation, and their self-confidence. Some of the stats are eye-watering and should not be ignored. It is a simple way of increasing achievement, as well as giving pleasure and providing a rounded education.

It is not just "important to me" - it is central to raising standards and it is being ignored. I am watching this happen in the school I am involved with and it is extraordinary.

Yes, that's what my son says, and he's a head of music. It's well known that music, science and maths are complementary. But it seems to be sidelined more and more.

My grandson has never really liked music, but yesterday he was singing along to a classical song. He's the only grandchild who is not musical, so I am just wondering if he's a late developer in this as with so many things. It will certainly please his parents. There is a piano and guitars in his house, and both his parents can sing and read music, but there would have been no point in making him have music lessons previously as he would wear ear defenders to cut out the sound.

What sorts of things is your school doing Mishap?
I went through schools, and so did my children, which did teach music. And quite frankly I dont think that the school lessons were taught well. Very random. I didnt get the impression that they were of much benefit to the pupils in general. But it isnt something that could be quantified at the time.
[My kids and I all had private tuition, so it didnt make much difference to us personally].

On the BBC news now- a feature about how essential it is for children to learn dance. As said, where does one stop?
Ballet and modern dance is great for balance, poise and confidence.

It is proven that learning foreing languages (my bee in the bonnet) from a young age has a clear effect on the brain too.

Our GCs do music at state primary school in the UK- and at home they have wall to wall music of every style, from classical to rock, and everything in between, and are constantly singing- GS is learning the guitar with his dad, the piano with his mum, and sure grand-daughter will too.

Thank you all, btw, for an interesting exchange on the topic. And as so often, we will have to agree to disagree. As Soontobe, I am hugely concerned about that 3rd group- that lack of supervision and checks is allowing to fall right through the net without any kind of education, discipline and socialisation, etc.