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Advice from ex-teachers out there....

(66 Posts)
Luckygirl Mon 20-Jul-15 13:52:34

A friend of mine has been told that her son cannot study German at A level, as there are two few pupils wishing to start it in September. He is in an academy with its own sixth form. German is clearly listed on their website as an A level option.

The school has suggested that he search out a distance learning course, but that his family would have to bear the cost and there would be no financial help or learning support from the school.

There other suggestion is to change schools!

Where do they stand over this? I would have thought that if a pupil was registered at the school then his education was the school's responsibility.

MargaretX Sat 01-Aug-15 23:02:22

Penst it is wrong to assume that 'A' levels are easy. The traditional ones are a lot of work and as for choreography I can imagine that someone with a set of good traditional A levels would set about Choreography in a structiured way and could learn it, providing he / she could dance. I think you will find that very good dancers are very intelligent people.

There is nothing to be won for a country to lower standards in education and of course social skills are important but if a land is to move on and keep up it needs its children to be well educated and especially the bright ones have to be appreciated and given the best chances. The future lies in their hands especially their IT skills.

Joan Sat 01-Aug-15 22:51:09

Is there any chance of his going to Germany as an exchange student? That way he would be fluent in no time, and could do the academic part via online teaching. He could then start 6th form a year later.

German is too important a language to give up, and although most Western European kids now speak English, it needs a native English speaker to do translating and interpreting - in other words, protocol demands that you only translate INTO your own language. Then there are many science and engineering texts that only exist in German.

I would put pressure on the board of governors to be true to their school's advertising, or pay for an online course.

Back in the old days of grammar schools, my sister was one of only two that did A level Latin, and one pf 6 doing German.

Penstemmon Sat 01-Aug-15 22:00:20

GJ what an odd assumption and rather old hat thinking. This hierarchy of 'cleverness' and 'difficulty' is artificial. Traditional A levels are easy for those who have a natural aptitude in that aspect but may find , fr example, choreographing a dance extremely difficult. It is all ability but society values one sort more than another. In my opinion those with a high ability of emotional and social literacy are probably the most successful and personally happy in life!

granjura Wed 22-Jul-15 09:42:11

same for sil- this is how they met. They were both chosen for having studied 'traditional A'Levels' rather than 'new trendy ones'- as they are a much better marker of ability.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 15:59:00

Our DD1 for instance, was chosen for an IT Post Grad trainee course BECAUSE she had not studied IT, for either A'Level or Degree- as they felt students who had done IT for GCSE, A'Level and even Degree- had too narrow a knowledge field and mind.

suzied Tue 21-Jul-15 15:54:47

I worked at a school which got money for being an " engineering" specialism but didn't offer engineering at any level.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 15:44:37

I would certainly get in touch with the Head of Governors if the school is listed as a specialist Mod langs college! The least they could do is to advertise in all other local schools to form and timetable a viable group.
But as said, there are just too many (soft) options now available- diluting all courses and also costing a fortune to sustain- and which are not even valued by UCAS/unis and or employers. Universities offering many of those courses actually do prefer to take on students who have studied other more traditional subjects (for Law, Sociology and Psychology Degrees, and many more).

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 15:35:26

luckygirl- if this school is a Mod Langs specialist school- then I think they have a much better case- at least to team up with another school/s to make up a class.

I'm afraid the the multiplicity of new courses available nowadays- some seen as 'easy/soft' options (which are not actually so, only perceived) is creating real problems for more traditional courses, like mod langs and history, geography, etc. as Alea says- tragic.

MargaretX Tue 21-Jul-15 15:05:01

Lets not forget the Goethe Institute. Sometimes known as the German Institute, this exists for the teaching of the German language and the propogation of German Culture abroad. Like the Institute Francais or the British Council.
There is one in Manchester and London to my knowledge and their courses are the best you will ever find, they also have many courses in Germany but then funding could be a problem.
The National Extension College ( hope I've got the name right)does distance learning and I did 'A' level Psychology with them some years ago.
You can pay monthly.
best of luck!

Luckygirl Tue 21-Jul-15 14:39:51

I appreciate the difficulties that an arise over putting on all A-level courses in schools, but it is just particularly unfortunate in this instance, as this school was chosen because of its designation as a Modern Foreign Languages College, and the family feel very let down - which is not unreasonable.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 14:14:34

perhaps like a gap year working or studying in Germany- or do his 3rd university year via Erasmus in Germany- having kept up his German via privat tuition (often possible on exchange basis with a German student, etc- even by Skype). The possibilities outside the strict academic framework are endless with a bit of imagination and support.

trisher Tue 21-Jul-15 11:18:28

I think the first thing your friend should do is try to find out if there are any other people in the same position. Communication at this stage of education is difficult and it could be that there are quite a few others. If the school has cut courses there is probably a very narrow line between those it has cut and those it continues to fund. A group of parents will have more influence than one family (perhaps contact his peers who have taken German GCSE with him).
If the school continues to refuse to run a course you could then look at alternatives together. Many good suggestions have already been given. The only thing I would add is that the reason for wanting to do German is important. If it is for an essential for the direction he has chosen then he must move to where he can do the A level. If it is because he enjoys and is good at it he could find a way to develop his skill without any academic focus.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 11:13:56

Not sure about Adult Education classes. When I was studying for A'Level course at Leicester Adult Education college- we had 3 x 6th formers from local colleges doing the night course with us- as it could not be offered at their 6th forms.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 11:11:45

He has the choice of going to another 6th Form that offers it- or ask the school if he can go to another school to just follow the German- if timetabling works out. It is well worth pursuing for the very reasons that cause the problem here- so few students do German A'Level, that they can get really good jobs and be accepted on great Degree and Post Grad courses because of the German- in banking, accounting, science, engineering, etc, as well as the more obvious linguistic studies. As I taught both, when students who could only pick one asked for advice, I always said take German, for reasons given.

Gracesgran Tue 21-Jul-15 10:30:43

You would hope that schools could cooperate where numbers are low. I find it surprising that there is only one school with a 6th Form unless this area is very rural.

absent Tue 21-Jul-15 10:17:31

I agree with thatbags that this is not a new problem, although the problem that I encountered was slightly different. I was clobbered back in the 1960s when the teacher whose second language was Spanish but whose primary language was French moved to another school. Her replacement French teacher had combined her French language degree with Italian. I joined an adult education class for Spanish, which I'm pretty sure my parents paid for, and although the method of teaching and the pace was somewhat different, I managed okay. I did quite a lot of work on my own too and I guess I was helped a lot by having a father who was a fantastic linguist and spoke fluent Spanish. However, I lived in London at a time when such classes were widely available and relatively inexpensive. I am not sure that a 17-year-old could do that so easily or inexpensively now, even with the same level of parental input.

thatbags Tue 21-Jul-15 08:39:08

I have no axe to grind about English academies, btw, and none about LEAs either. I happened to live in an area with an excellent LEA when my older kids were at school.

thatbags Tue 21-Jul-15 08:37:52

My impression from the OP was not that there wasn't a teacher available but that there were too few pupils wanting to do A-level German for the school's funding to cover a teacher's salary. The difference may be subtle but it is real. Hard to know what is actually the case here, but I agree that not having German A-level does look odd for a so-called specialist language school. What other foreign languages do they cover at A-level? Arabic? Chinese (Mandarin)? Spanish? Dutch? Urdu? I'd be interested to know.

I presume the specialism is in foreign languages rather than English.

Anya Tue 21-Jul-15 07:04:00

Bring back the LEAs!

Anya Tue 21-Jul-15 07:03:23

Yes bags it has always happened but this shows how poor the academy system is when a school designated as a Specialist Language College cannot offer an 'A' level in a subject like German.

It is getting harder to find teachers of certain subjects and this will only get worse. The crazy truth is that by not getting more young people taking these subjects at 'A' level and then beyond to degree level the situation I'd being exacerbated.

I don't know the legal situation but I'd be inclined to contact the local newspaper and try shaming this school into providing your GS with the means to study his subject. Being the silly season it may well be they would run a story on this.

thatbags Tue 21-Jul-15 06:29:29

Too few pupils for a particular A-level subject has always been a problem for schools. It's nothing new. Happened to my sister at a grammar school in the seventies and to my daughter at a comprehensive in the nineties.

For this reason I don't think it's about funding cuts so much as funding limits, which will always exist. Schools cannot cover everything. What they cover partly depends on demand. Obviously the subjects with little demand will be the ones to 'suffer' in any particular cohort.

Hope he manages to find another way to study German if that's what he wants to do.

suzied Tue 21-Jul-15 04:28:37

The budgets haven't been frozen, they have been cut for post 16 students. With increases in costs, pension contributions etc many schools are struggling and having to reduce staffing numbers as this is about the only area they can save money .

Gracesgran Mon 20-Jul-15 23:13:56

So generally these are young people going into "A" level with no provision for pretty standard subjects. How demoralising for them. I know we are lucky with the 6th form provision in our local town (five schools all with 6th forms) but I am shocked at the lack of choice for these students.

It sounds suzied like frozen budgets and a growth in students from what you say. All I can see is that if the economy does eventually pick up teachers will leave in droves.

janerowena Mon 20-Jul-15 22:55:44

We had the same problem, with music. They borrowed a teacher from elsewhere, as we were furious - then the teacher died. DS tried to teach himself for the rest of the year, but his results were poor. It was such a mess from start to finish, but the only other school in the area doing music was a really expensive private one. Only two other pupils wanted to do it.

Luckygirl Mon 20-Jul-15 20:26:10

This lad has taken GCSE French and German, so has a good grounding - results predicted to be good. I am not sure where to start when it comes to distance learning and how this might fit in with school. And how it might be funded - this family are on a limited income.