Incredible shananigans to get kids in chosen schools?

When I graduated and decided against teacher training, I applied to the GLC graduate recruitment scheme and ended up working with the ILEA in County Hall (1969).

I worked with architects to provide the extra accommodation needed for raising the school leaving age to 16 so maybe some of us have links from way back then!

That's when I first realised that voluntary aided schools exist, as they don't in Scotland!

Over the next couple of years I decided to go on to pg teacher training but never considered training in England so returned home.

DS will soon apply for PGDE but won't consider teaching in England -a view I absolutely support.

None of the children who attend my church are able to get places in our church primary. Something wrong there I think.

I really am not being an 'inverted snob' in believing society as a whole would benefit from a more egalatarian education system.
I attended both private and state schools, taught in faith and community schools and have worked with headteachers of private, community , faith academy & free schools. I sincerely believe that if we had one style of high quality local community schools it would help to iron out the 'them & us' approach that is increasingly apparent across UK society.

By "sacrificing" my children for my principles I meant sending them to a substandard (being kind) state secondary school, believe me I never fiddled my applications, bent the rules or got up to anything underhand.

The existence of private schools is something that anyone who pays, or has paid, tax might well consider their business because private schools are effectively subsidised by the state through being allowed charitable status. Also private teachers' pension schemes are topped up by the state to the same level as state teachers' pensions schemes, which - as the Telegraph noted in November 2011 - means that private teachers' salaries are effectively being subsidised by the taxpayer.

The taxpayer is also paying for the so-called "free schools" that are being opened even in areas where there is no need for further school places because the current schools are under-subscribed, and for the financial "sweeteners" used to entice schools to become academies. The taxpayer may also be interested to investigate the number of academies and free schools that, because of the lack of proper oversight, have been found to be mis-spending money, have closed due to lack of sufficient pupil numbers or having been found to be seriously under performing; offering too limited a curriculum, etc. etc.

Some argue that academies and free schools are sucking up the best teachers and extra money, leaving those falling within local authority control under-resourced. Critics also say that money is being diverted from extra services for schools such as help for children with special educational needs as more and more schools become academies.

Finance and performance management of academies and free schools are not monitored by the local authority education department. They are subject only to Ofsted inspections and in fact, the government announced that all "outstanding" schools will no longer be required to have routine Ofsted inspections.

I agree that any school takes it's lead from the Head of the school, if there is a weak, or pretty useless Head, then the teaching staff will be demoralised
And the school starts a downward slide.
bad schools are often turned around by an excellent Headteacher.

The c of e high school my children attended offered places on a points system. This meant regular church attendance, added points for other church based activities, brownies, Cubs or other youth organisations and voluntary church activities for parents. It was grant aided I don't know what that means now but the rumour is it may become an academy. It now admits any child with a statement who puts the school as first choice, irrespective of church attendance

*TriciaF8it was not supply it was how 'probationary' teachers were most often placed. All my contemporaries from college got jobs that way unless they were offered a job in their TP school which sometimes happened if vacancies were appropriate.

I think, could be wrong, that faith schools have a choice. Whether to stay out of the state system and pay all their own costs, parents paying fees. Or opt to be state funded in which case they have to follow the core state curriculum and admit a quota of children who don't belong to their faith.
Post retirement I worked part-tme in a faith school kindergarten which had opted to stay out of the state system.

I've kept out of this so far but I have been reading all the posts with interest.

I have absolutely no problem with faith schools , independent schools, grammer schools, academies , free schools etc.

It is no business of mine if a parent can afford to send their child to an independent school, unless they are a hypocrite who 'instructs' others they cannot/should not do the same as they chose to educate their own children. That is nothing short of inverted class snobbery which is usually quite spiteful in it's nature.

As for faith schools, of which I am speaking of CofE and Catholic (not madrassas and others) I don't think this is easy to deal with. To say they should be abolished is as reasonable for another person to say they want to keep them. I understand how difficult it would be for someone who has a firm belief that they do not want their child educated in a faith school when their catchment school is a faith school. All I will say is 4 years ago when my DGD applied to our local CofE there was no question asked about her faith. Likewise when my daughter attended the local Catholic school 30 years ago they did ask if she had been baptized but that does not happen now so I am told. Am I wrong in my belief a faith school has to prioritise entry to their school for children in the catchment area , not their faith? If faith was the priority why would they not ask what faith you hold, they do not ask here.

My view of education will be based on a personal level, not as some post with knowledge of the education system.

My DGD did not obtain a place in the school of our choice which happened to be CofE, the one her mother had attended. There were too few places and DGD lives less than 1 mile outside the catchment area She now attends a school that we had no desire for her to attend. It is a state school but it's reputation has not disappointed us because it was known to be poor. It has nothing to do with how many poor, middle class, wealthy parents there are. It is an extremely mixed area. It is the quality of the teaching staff and that comes down to the Head Mistress who has allowed the reputation of the school to decline over her tenure.

What I am trying to say it is not as black and white as getting rid of independent schools or faith schools, academies, free schools etc. There are many excellent inner city schools in deprived areas aren't there! It is to my mind the quality of teaching and that starts with a good head teacher and his/her running of a school. The thought that if you shut independent schools that means rich parents would force schools to be level playing fields is more about inverted snobbery to my mind. There are some very wealthy parents of children who attend my DGD school but you can't shift a Head Teacher who is determined to have a 'non homework policy', doesn't like discipline etc.

All so very difficult.

There was a sort of 'meat market' in Edinburgh in 1963 when directors of education of many authorities came along and interviewed likely candidates who were then offered jobs in whatever schools needed them. I got fed up waiting for Perth and accepted a job in a Direct Grant school. A few days too late, Perth Academy came up with an offer. It made no difference to my subsequent career because I was set on going to Africa and two years later, I did just that - fifty years ago tomorrow!

Maybe those were the days when many people started off as "Supply" teachers, then you could be sent anywhere.
The LEA sent me to the Grace Darling secondary special school (ESN) at Clapham Junction and it was a baptism of fire!

Oh if only I had a memory, penstemmon, I could name names and compare notes!

Alea I applied to Wandsworth and Merton 'teaching pool' as a LFA (London First Appointment) and was interviewed in County Hall by Alistair Aston (one of the Inspectors) I was then sent to St George's PS in Thessaly Rd. My DH went through the same process the previous year to me and was sent to Kennington Boys School and stayed about 17 years! He taught briefly at Battersea County for June/July as he finished his course as he had done teaching practice there. Subsequently we applied, via ads in TES, for other jobs.

Most of our kids from St George's went to Battersea County as it was just a short walk away so they may have come your way Alea

I went into teaching late, as a mature student, and we definitely had the choice of where to apply for jobs. Must say, and I did understand their reasons, but couldn't do it myself- several of the new teachers looked for jobs in Church or private schools- as they could not face the issues they would have to address in inner city schools (after experiencing such on teaching practice). I had a friend who was a staunch atheist, but decided to teach in a girl's Catholic school- which I found bizarre.

In France btw, the system still places teachers wherever there is a gap- sometimes on the other side of the country. It's crazy because new inexperienced teachers find themselves in large numbers in very difficult schools, with little support. They can apply at a later stage for 'mutation' eg to be sent to the area they come from or want to live in- but not generally for a specific school- and it can take years and years.

A very interesting thread! I taught for many years overseas in schools set up for expatriate children and had many children whose first language was not English. They learned very quickly and integrated well. In Hong Kong we had to introduce a reading test to find kids who had a basic knowledge of English using the Janet and John books ( it was a long time ago!) We found that the Chinese parents were so desperate to get their children into our schools that the children were taught the book parrot fashion and it wasn't until they started their first term that their total lack of understanding in the classroom became apparent! As you can imagine we changed the system pdq. My own kids went to many different types of school until we got to a stage when we felt that they needed some stability and they went to boarding school in the UK. They are both well-rounded, easy with people and doing as well as we hoped. We felt we did the best we could for them as any parent who cares will do. I agree that in a perfect world all schools would be excellent, but they're not - it doesn't mean we can't try to improve and help the ones who need it.

That wasn't my experience when I started as a Secondary teacher in 1970 (also within the ILEA), we used to find our jobs in the TES (Times Educational Supplement) which would come out on Friday. Word got round when I was looking for a job once up here because I had it delivered along with our daily paper and the paper boy was somebody I taught!
My first school incidentally was in SE London, in Plumstead and my second also in Battersea, in Battersea Park Road. I wonder if Penstemmon and I came across the same students!

I realised a couple of hours after I left gransnet this afternoon, that people have diffferent choices in life. And sometimes that choice is very limited.

I had no idea that as a teacher in the 70s or whenever, that a teacher had no choice about where they were placed.

I also acknowledge that just because someone calls themselves a christian is not an absolute guarantee that they are doing all they should be doing.

Sorry!My last contribution: to those who have been able to choose what they wanted for your children:smaller school to suit a child's needs, a 'nicer' type of community etc. What do you think about parents who love and care about their kids as much as you but do not have the options you had? Is it ok for their kids not to have the same options. Is it ok for priviledge ( even if it meant scrimping) to buy /secure advantage in a basic right such as education? I agree all schools should be good (most are!) But the fact is it is not always the education people buy/ secure but 'social equals'

I did not have a choice re church school as a teacher. In those days ILEA placed you in a school. That is what I got. It served a deprived area between Battersea dogs home and the Wandsworth Rd. It was a very Christian school in that it took all comers and selected none by faith/church attendance. Mr White the HT was a real Christian with a personal faith that he demonstrated every day in school. I then chose the next chuch school and was shocked at how different it was...99% white families compared to the school in the next rd 99% black families. It was selection. The HT was faux christian and a snob...all bible but no values! That is when I started campaigning for faith schools to go. My DDs have chosen the one local school that is not a faith school for their children.Jusy clarifying as I felt that some were implying I was being hypocritical.

Quite, roses. I've never understood the need to say 'I don't usually agree with you, but...' . Very odd.

Iam64....... There's a first for everything!
I may not agree with you or others on some subjects, but never disagree ' on principle' if my thoughts chime with what anyone says then I say so.

You see, every cloud has a silver lining

Well done to Iam64's DD amd others like her.

Enjoy your cup of tea!

Oh dear Iam64 -