Autism fight for help

Penstemmon, Just picking you up on your last sentence: 'School systems should be supportive and flexible to help children who find particular situations difficult to manage.'

What exactly do you mean?

Mainstream school with special unit. Quiet room where children can go if they get stressed. Mainly the school head and teachers listen and act on problems and talk things through before they become major problems. The quiet room seems to be a big help as the teachers know if anyone goes there they are feeling stressed even though they may not be articulating this.

Autism is, as the book title says, Different For Girls. Much less obvious so often diagnosed later. My granddaughter was 11 and had had a hellish time in primary school, with no help at all.
Home educating is not an option when both parents have to work and school caused relentless misery and anxiety. She got no support until she was 15 then the school washed it's hands of her because she was never going to get the GCSEs to do A levels and a child with special needs would lower their results
She went o to a Further Education college (£25 weekly bus fares) where the support has been excellent.
Mainstream bog-standard schools have no resources or reasons to help these children.

watermeadow so glad your GD is getting help now. Life must have been really hard for all of you. So many children have a tough time at school ....best years of your life...not for the bullied.

Daphnedill I mean that if there are children with SEND who need a quiet lunch times, small group work, adaptation to rules etc the school should be able to provide this e.g. As a LA adviser I had a major debate with a head who insisted that a Reception child had to wear full school uniform. The child had a range of needs one being sensory and an aversion to certain clothing. I was arguing that it was better for the child to be in school in soft pyjamas and be comfortable than distressed and unhappy in scratchy school uniform and disrupting everyone's learning!! Head insisted the child was being 'manipulative' despite a lot of evidence to the contrary.

Sorry to hear that experience Watermeadow..please do not judge all schools by one set of experiences no matter how bad. There are very many 'bog standard' schools doing fantastic work with children/students with a whole range of challenging needs and disabilities .

Aha! Sorry, Penstemmon, but I've come cross so many advisors who really don't understand the practicalities of the situation. They want SEND children to have extra support, but don't seem to realise the pressure that teachers are under. I left teaching before performance related pay became a big deal, but the pressure was bad enough even then. Teachers are working 60+ hours a week and are becoming paranoid if they don't reach their targets. They are very likely to be sacked, especially if they work in an academy.

With all due respect, allowing a child to wear pyjamas is almost guaranteed to single a child out and lead to teasing or bullying. I worked in a special school for a while, where a number of the pupils had sensory issues. They wore soft cotton underwear (even in Summer) and a couple wore gloves.

A quiet room is fine and many schools have them, but it needs to be staffed, as do small groups and extra pastoral staff to be on hand when needed. There is no incentive for schools to fund them, especially if the school is struggling to meet its targets. That's the reality.

The really important thing is what happens in the classroom. Advisors have sometimes suggested a different way of working to satisfy the needs of a SEND pupil. However, this means changing everything for all the other pupils as well. An advisor once told me that an autistic child couldn't concentrate with posters on the wall and other pupils talking. She suggested that pupils should work in silence for most of the lesson. I'm sure this would have aided the SEND pupil's concentration, but unfortunately, I was a languages teacher and I WANTED the pupils to talk to each other in pairs or groups for much of the time.

Schools which put extra resources into SEND risk alienating the parents of pupils who will achieve high grades to impress other parents and place the school high in the league tables. There is a school just like that near where I live. Being in the catchment area of that school depresses house prices and parents who can afford the fees send their children to private schools. That particular school has an excellent reputation for SEND, but it's become a failing 'sink' school. The situation has become so bad that the school has now created a high-achieving stream to tempt some parents back.

Daphnedill I am fully aware of the "practicalities of a situation" I was a class teacher and taught many children with SEND, a SENCO in a mainstream school and headteacher of a school with a SEND base covering 30+ years before I offered any kind of advice to other professionals! I did not just wander in with a vaugue idea I'd read about! I had experienced all kinds of situations, met a wide range of children and families before and had success and failures of my own to draw upon.

Did you work in a secondary school teaching a core subject?

Sorry, but what you're suggesting sounds like dreamland.

Where there's a will there's a way!

I fully appreciate that the older the pupil often the challenge is trickier to handle. However I do know that very many secondary schools have some excellent systems and procedures that work well to support SEND pupils. Some teachers do find it harder to adapt their teaching to accommodate SEND students than others and some SEND students may be better served in different settings than mainstream classrooms, the world is not perfect or fair.

I notice you said all your classes had over 30 children..I think that now that is less common at secondary level. I asked my DH how often he saw schools with regularly over 30 students in a class and he said rarely nowadays!

PS I did teach "core subjects" but not secondary level ...but not sure what your point is?

Do you think that the provision of extra support for autistic children is especially difficult because each one has very different needs, which vary in different circumstances?
My job used to entail devising behavioural and learning programmes for special needs children, but in those days we rarely came across an autistic child (apart from those with severe learning difficulties.) Maybe they were all misdiagnosed, and in special schools.
This was before the autistic spectrum was recognised.
From what those of you with an autistic child in the family are saying, it will take a very skillful and sensitive teacher to do this work.

Each child is different of course. Sometimes very minor adjustments can make a massive difference. Some teachers, like some other people, just 'get it' and can work with people on the spectrum beautifully. Its hard to say why. Its something personal to them that can't just be implanted by a training course. If your child is lucky enough to have one of those intuitively asd friendly teachers -rejoice! They are very rare though.

Exactly Jane10.
I have very strong views on this subject, which I dare not express on here, or on the other current thread (the "A" word.)
So I'll back out.

This is going to be very unpopular view, but children with special needs need teachers with specialist knowledge. There is too much wanting all children to integrate into mainstream education - often placing stress on class teachers and pupils.

It's all a matter of degree. Those with quite exteme needs need special schools that can cater for those needs. Too many parents see special education as a negative. This is not the case - provided these schools are funded well and staffed with the right people.

Having worked with all types of schools in my career I can testify to the wonderful education provided by schools who understand the needs of, for example, children with autism and the amazing professionalism of all the staff from HT to teachers to TA's.

There are fantastic special schools with highly qualified staff and specialist provision in 'bases' at mainstream schools. These places often offer outreach support to help professionals in mainstream manage the needs of their SEND pupils. I have benefitted from such support.

Sadly there is not enough high quality provision easily available for all the children/students who need it.

Funding for all children/schools gets tighter and tighter, teacher /support staff shortages are not going away and the education profession is being changed and tweaked by central government dictats almost on a weekly basis!!

In these crisis situations it is always the most vulnerable who suffer most.

Very rare indeed at primary level, if indeed any.

And not many at secondary level either.

But plenty of PRUs.

Hasn't someone already commented on the dreamland feel of some posts?

In my opening post I was trying to encourage parents (grandparents) of children on the autistic spectrum to fight for help and support for their autistic children because the right support can help. As mentioned my GC goes to a mainstream school with a special unit. It has helped tremendously. I think because all the teachers and ancillary staff are committed to making it work for my GC, others in the unit AND all the other children in the school who don't need all the extra support. The children seem happy, the teachers seem happy. Benefits all round.

I am not saying this can be done in all schools but please don't tell me my GC should not be in mainstream school because it would disadvantage the other children or that GC has to be in a special school. All children, autistic and otherwise need help to cope with all sorts of problems. Bullying, sexting etc. I am not saying it's anyone's fault, just that more funding and support is neede for all children and until it becomes available you have to fight to get the best you can.

How I agree with your second paragraph Crafting.My GS is also in mainstream and rightly so.It enriches his life and those of his fellow students. He needs to be able to cope with everyday life and they need to understand there are some children who think and act a bit differently.Perhaps there would then be less ignorance about the condition than their is now. He has had some lovely teachers and is now with a very laid back young man who accepts him for who he is and makes no big issue of it. We don't have a Special Unit but his one to one helper will take him off somewhere if he gets upset about anything. I am not saying that others are more suited to special or home education but please don't imply that those who can cope with mainstream should not be there.

My GS was in a mainstream class with a severely autistic boy with behavioural problems. The teacher was lovely but had no real support. His parents refused to accept his condition. My GS's life was hell for 6 months as not only was the class disrupted constantly but this child singled him out to shout in his face and intimidate, especially in the playground.

Please don't tell me that my rather timid GS should be happy being bullied in this way.

As I said before it's all a matter of degree so I certainly wasn't 'implying' anything other than there are those who can 'cope' and those who can't. Other children matter too.

Luckily this child is no longer in mainstream as his behaviour escalated to a point where other children were endangered. He is now in a school with teachers who can perhaps modify his behaviour and give him the help he clearly needs.

Incidentally I'm talking about primary schools in this instance and my GS was in Y4 at the time. Only large schools have special units as a rule and most of them are in secondary schools.

anya just for clarification the school with SEND unit where I was HT was an Infant school. Our partner Junior also had a unit. This was not unusual in the authorities where I have worked. Maybe different in "shire" authorities as they cover a wider area but do not know as not my experience.

Also primary school where I was HT shared building with Queensmill School for children with autism. I learned a huge amount from the staff at that school. Queensmill is now in its own building.

Anya I'm really sorry your GS had such an awful time. I hate bullying in any form. If things were as bad as you say (and I do believe they were) it is a shame the school did not deal with it better. My GC had exactly the same problem but in GC case GC was the one who was bullied by many of the other children in the class (not autistic children). Again the school did nothing (bullying does not exist in our school).

I am not saying all autistic children should be in mainstream school but only those (who with help) can cope. Unfortunately, diagnosis of autism and help for it, are hard to come by. If things were funded better (for all children with extra needs) then children would not have to go through the difficulties your GS experienced.

That's very true Crafting - the bit about diagnosis, help and funding. I think it took 6 months to get the boy I mentioned through that process and moved closer - which is quite fast in one way. No one likes to acknowledge accept that bullying does go on in all schools to a lesser or greater extent - especially HTs!

I realise you are not saying all autistic children ought to be in mainstream