Maths homework help please

Sorry that should read Does that sound familiar. Pred text!!

grannypiper I can't agree that your way is necessarily helpful just because it seems easier.
By teaching 4x1=4 and 9x1=9 you are demonstrating a simple process which will lead on to evermore complex processes.
Saying 1x2=2 or 1x6=6 you are simply repeating the fact and stating the obvious.
One of the biggest problems when parents/grandparents 'help' by showing children an 'easier' way to do any type of sum is that children become confused.
Example - children are taught in school to subtract using the decomposition method. Gran doesn't understand it as it's not the way she was taught so she reverts to the method she understands and finds easier. She suggests it's better to 'add one to the top and one to the bottom'. Does that would familiar?
Child is now faced with 2 competing (and not complementary) methods.
Far more effective in the long run to find out how and why the school-based method is taught and how it fits into the longer term teaching strategy.

Ginny42 Would you have written this You will have guessed by now that although an MA in English, my maths skills amount to zilch! shock But hey, I got by. replacing maths with reading? Why are people so happy to say, with a self-deprecating giggle, 'I can't do maths'? It says so much about the whole attitude to maths and science in this country.

Random testing is the best if you can. I do that with my grandchildren on the way to school.
You really do need to be able to remember 7x8=56, etc., if you want to calculate with any confidence.
I used to have a set of domino-shaped cards with the factors on one side and a different multiple on the other.
Have the multiples showing. Turn a card over, then see who can find the answer quickest. Children always win. It also shows how many have the same multiple and helps to see patterns in factors because the cards are in front of you.

Watch these children using an abacus:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEoWmYRwDuI

Some of them seem to wave their hand in the air. They're taught to imagine they're using the abacus, which is what they're doing with the hand waving.

I find basic arithmatic difficult now. Well I was never any good at it.
I tried a facebook maths quiz this morning quiz and found it hard.
I had to work out some long division, simple equations and multiplications, which I did but it took me a long time.

Good job I have a calculator.
From what I have seen they deal with maths in a much different way now than they did in the 1950/60s.

Ginny, I'm fairly sure that's how my children (ages 19 and 24) were taught. 'Mental Maths' was part of their SATs (not sure if still is) and they could do tables and random multiplication at lightning speed. They were taught to use all sorts of different strategies, so it's not just 'tables' they can do in their head, but quite long multiplication too. When children progress to doing real maths (not just arithmetic), they need to know that 7 x 8 = 8 x 7 etc.

My DGD is educated in Southern England and had a problem with her times tables as the were written as follows
1x1=1
2x1=2
3x1=3
4x1=4
5x1=4 etc

I taught her the way i was taught by turning the list around to
1x1=1
1x2=2
1x3=3
1x4=4
1x5=5 etc

A very very small simple change that cured the problem within the afternoon. Visually it is easier and it uncomplicate's the list. I done the same with my children before the teachers muddled their head.

I have to use different strategies for remembering times tables, e.g.turning them around. I cannot quickly recall 8x7, but have instant recall of 7x8.

I use the 10 x to work out the 9 x as others say.

I sometimes use the 'add on' method, e.g. I will go to the nearest one know best and add on the number.

Perhaps it's a case of having strategies to draw on if your memory isn't that good for instant recall.

You will have guessed by now that although an MA in English, my maths skills amount to zilch! But hey, I got by.

My dad tested me every day on a few random times tables questions. I do agree that first the child has to understand how multiplication tables work, but then it's a matter of getting them in your head - and I still can immediately answer any multiplication table question. It takes a bit of time and effort on your part, but it's a lot easier than fiddling around with fingers!

When I was at school we simply recited them every morning for the first five minutes I ve never forgotten them and can still go through them now at 72,
I notice nowadays or certainly at the primary school my grandkids were at they did recite just the numbers like 2 4 6 8 or 3 6 9 etc whilst we used to say ..once 2 is 2, 2 2 s are 4, 3 2s are 6 etc which makes more sense to me

I agree, Jalima. It's a bit like learning verbs in a foreign language. It's all very well being able to chant them, but the learner has to know how/when to use them.

DD taught me the finger thing!
You could try the random times table questions at home until he gets used to them.

It is good to know times tables but being able to use reasoning for mathematics problems is essential too.

Goldengirl - that's the finger thing DGD1 explained to me! I just can't get the hang of it though as 9x is easy to work out from the 10x. It's the 8x I have problems with and have to turn it round to remember it. I only know 8x8 and9x8!

Both my DGDs are being taught to count in 3s or however many. 3, 6, 9, etc. But not how many 3s or 4s they're counting. Then expect them to know their tables when asked. It'll probably come right in the end!

Ginny42 just one word of warning, raps, songs and chanting tables are all very well but they will not compensate if your GS has problems in his basic understanding of multiplication. He will get the homework right because he will remember the appropriate section of the rap/song, but his later work in maths will be affected. I speak as a teacher and as someone who learned their tables dutifully and did well in primary school but who struggled at secondary level. Why? Because I thought the Times Tables were like some magic spell and you just had to chant the right bit. (I know I was an imaginative child!) It wasn't until I trained as a primary teacher that I realised what was missing and learned that children need to learn about multiplication as repeated addition and become skilled in the manipulation of numbers
I would also encourage him to use number facts he already knows to answer some of the questions. For example 7x8, does he know what 7x4 is?well 8 is double 4. Using facts he knows to work out the answers will encourage him to find ways of working out problems in future and serve him better than relying on chanting his tables.

OMG gg I'm all fingers and thumbs! Thank you all so much for the suggestions which I will pass on to my DD.

Since my OP I've spent some time looking for raps and songs written for teaching x tables. A Google search will bring some up. I thought this Rock around the Clock hilarious.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY4TeuafNn0

I've found one or two good games, e.g. www.mad4maths.com/4_x_multiplication_table_math_game/

Some schools have excellent stuff too. I found Maths Zone on this award winning site excellent. No doubt there are others.
www.woodlands.kent.sch.uk/

Thanks again for the help. I knew GN would have some ideas! I hope my links help others.

9x can be done on your fingers.
Hold up 10 fingers and put 1 thumb down. 1x9=9

Raise your thumb and put down just your 2nd finger; your thumb = 1 and the other side of the 2nd finger =8 Answer: 18

Put down your middle finger [3] and you get 2 on one side and 7 left = 27 etc

Doesn't do 11 or 12 of course unless you use your toes!

My primary school headteacher taught me that as a means of encouragement!

GC's school do not consider times tables to be important. Elder GD started off well with her maths but then started to lag behind, the school just gave her easier books rather than address the problem. DS arranged a private tutor and she is doing well now, just needed someone to explain to her on a one to one basis.
We used to ask GD random times tables and the seven times was always a problem, youngest got so used to hearing the question seven times seven that she used to shout "forty nine grandma"

Why not practice random table tests at home rather than reciting tables. That way you can help him by showing him ways of quick calculating (like some of the tricks mentioned on this thread).

Also he makes sure he understands what he is learning. get him to build tables by physically manhandling objects, like Lego bricks into sets of tables, see how they link 2 and 4, 3 and 6 etc.

crossed post yggdrasil!!

Kids love all those tricks!! I used to pretend I didn't know the short cuts and they enjoyed showing me.

I would say another thing to make clear is the progression of numbers in times tables, i.e. explain that the number is growing by it's own value each time. I know that's not much help with the quick fire answers, but it does give the children an idea how the number has grown and where the answer might lie.

As for songs, Ginny, our daughter knew every word of all the Boyzone hits, but couldn't sing her tables!!??

Learning tables by rote is useful, if you can do it. Does the child actually understand that multiplication is only a shortcut to repeated addition? If you are trying to learn it as 'a thing to do' it is very hard, but if you know WHY it works it is so much easier.

Also...should have been 1+0 = 1

Think it's too early for this

Ooops! The asterisks should have made the middle digits bold.

Ignore the asterisks. I was trying to show that the middle digit is the sum of the two outside ones.

11 x table is easy up to 99, then:

10 x 11 (easy anyway), but:

1=0 = 1

Write 1*1*0

11 x 11

1+1 = 2

Write 1*2*1

12 x 11

1+2 = 3

Write 1*3*2