Mental health specialist in every school....

gillybob Are your DGD's current friends going to the school the LA has allocated?

I don't hold out much hope for your appeal either. All you can do is be positive and not pass your anxiety on to the child.

As I keep telling you, the LA is responsible for transport. If the school is three miles away and is the nearest with places, the LA has to provide transport, even if it's a taxi for one. That's why you won't win an appeal based on transport issues.

I agree with you gillybob. It was all part of the "competition is best" mantra in the 1990s.

Lillie I know policies aren't enough, which is why they have to be put into practice. Ofsted does actually evaluate the effectiveness and asks pupils what they know about online safety and how they found out. I was working in a school, which was downgraded from "Outstanding" because Ofsted judged that it wasn't doing enough to protect pupils from online bullying. Inspectors had picked up on it from talking to pupils and then asked SLT to justify that they were doing enough.

If parents have concerns, they can contact Ofsted, who will do a focused inspection.

I think the difference with testing children now to when we were in school is that the tests now are designed to rank schools, not children. Formerly they were a useful tool for the teacher to know who was struggling and who needed more challenge; a means of encouraging pupils to do better

Exactly Luckygirl and in many ways these tests and league tables, are part of the reason why some children cannot get into a school on their doorstep, when children living miles away can just because the parents manipulated the system very early on to ensure their child gets in to the best school years later. Before league tables children tended to go to the school closest to home and that was that.

No need to ban phones the school just needs a strict policy on not using them and a follow through if anyone does. Once their phone has been taken from them for a whole day and they have had to wait to get it back they will soon stop using it. They then have it to contact parents/carers outside the school gate.

off

On the subject of phones. Lots of downsides to them of course, but they are a useful safety item for children, especially in rural areas with hopeless transport - they can contact their parents when in trouble, and their parents can contact them.

I think the difference with testing children now to when we were in school is that the tests now are designed to rank schools, not children. Formerly they were a useful tool for the teacher to know who was struggling and who needed more challenge; a means of encouraging pupils to do better.

Now there are detailed narrow targets that the government requires children to meet ("age-related expectations", as if they are a bunch of widgets)and if the data show that some children are not up to that expectation, the school risks downgrading in their OfSted. And then there are SATs...say no more.

I am a school governor and I watch the sort of stress that this puts teachers under - constant assessments, gathering of data etc., and I do not think that the stress experienced by children in school is unrelated to this. If your class has a number of children not meeting these expectations, then you are constantly striving to achieve these, even though the child may be better served by moving more at their own pace. Trying to balance the real needs of the child against government edicts is very hard indeed. Even though there is a line in the data for individual progress, this cuts no ice with OfSted, who can grade a school downwards on the basis of the raw data, even if the class has a high preponderance of special needs. And we all know, as I have said before, that children who have an of day (the dog died or whatever) and anxious children perform below their abilities - and yet the whole future of the school hangs on this.

No wonder the teachers are stressed - maybe the in-school mental health specialist should be for them.

Yes, Iam64 collecting them in prevents bullying, exam cheating, theft etc. They shouldn't be allowed in school, and that rule should apply to teachers too.

I agree that mobile phones can be handed in and safely stored, to be collected at the end of the school day. It's more work for staff of course but must make managing classes (and bullying) easier.

Sorry to hear about your DGD gilly. It's not nice to hear of a child being so upset before she even starts secondary education.

Mobile phones only need to be banned from the school gates, they can be used to let parents know the child has arrived. They are collected and placed in a safe box during the school day.

We don't do SATs suzied. You're right, they cost an enormously wasteful amount in admin etc. In their place, however, we have bought an enormously expensive, but valuable, assessment programme. It is updated continuously throughout the year by monitoring each child's progress relative to his/her own achievements.

There's still hope.

Not trying to make light of a very serious subject but maybe some of the people in our LEA could do with a seeing mental health specialist. Then we might at least be able to reason with their twisted logic, lack of understanding and compassion.

All appeal papers are in Anya just waiting for a hearing date although looking at their appeal records I really don't hold out much hope. Poor little thing is so worried about secondary school it is ruining her life.

Has this gone to appeal yet Gilly?

It's all very well and good saying that mobiles should be banned in schools and to some extent I agree, however we are dreading the prospect of DGD having to travel to secondary school at age 11, all alone using 2 buses and waiting for a long period (again alone) at one of the bus stops. We will not know that she reached school safely unless she is able to let us know with a simple text or call. The idiots (and I'm sorry but they are) in our LEA have not/do not consider that she is at risk by travelling this route to school every day alone (the fact that she can see a school, from her bedroom window makes me so angry I want to punch someone in the bloody LEA who couldn't give a stuff) I bet they wouldn't out one of their own children through so much anxiety and worry.

If the government is looking for ways to save money they should abolish SATs. How much money does the admin etc of these tests cost? They could put the money into CAMHS.

But a policy for this, that and the other isn't enough daphne. A real person who actually is a specialist is needed. We employ IT teachers, but also have a non teaching specialist who sets the filters and who regularly monitors what happens on the computers as well as liaising with police. Likewise most of our teachers are first aiders, but we also employ a fully qualified nurse who can deal with both mental and physical needs.
As someone before mentioned this all comes at a cost and would be impossible to ntroduce across the board.

Every British state school has to have an online protection policy by law, which should be published on the school's website. Ofsted will assess its effectiveness alongside all other child protection policies and teaching. Many schools already ban mobiles on school premises or have a rule that they must be in bags and switched off. My chidren's school also ran sessions for parents about online safety.

Jane10 you raise an interesting point regarding mobile phones in schools - especially as M Macron has decided to ban them in French schools for all children under 15 years.
How many schools effectively teach children how to stay safe online? How many schools give instruction to children how to use snapchat and videos sensibly without opening themselves up to abuse and bullying? It seems to me we are going to need technology experts alongside mental health experts as the two things are becoming inextricably linked.

Yes, dd, it's the predictions and excessive data collection for blasted league tables that's the root of the problem.

And I reckon ignorant loutish people are definitely in the minority.

Famines are, in fact, far less common now than ever before, trisher. Just saying.

I'm not saying there aren't pressures on kids now. I'm just not sure what is causing the apparent rise in mental health problems. I say apparent because I wonder if some of it isn't just earlier recognition.

Yes, there have been cuts to mental health services (and my own daughter has been affected by that) but there is still much more help available to kids now than there was when my sister, for instance, had anorexia. Back then nobody seemed to know much about it and my parents who felt sorely blamed. There is more knowledge now about mental illness as well as more acceptance. Yes, I know there's still stigma but there is far less stigma than there was, except perhaps among ignorant loutish people.

PS. I omitted that most schools enter levels on to a database/spreadsheet every six weeks.

SATs should be abolished. They distort the curriculum in primary schools. Secondary schools are cynical about them anyway. We always used to know the schools which pushed children through tests and didn't take much notice of them. Most secondary schools administer CATs test in the first few weeks, which are a much better indicator of a child's innate intelligence and a better predictor of GCSE and A level grades.

I had tests at primary school too - spelling and tables every week and more formal tests every so often and, of course, there was the 11+. However, they were absolutely nothing like the assessments pupils now have from age 5 to 18.

Almost everything a pupil does is assessed and most secondary schools I know enter levels on to a database. Predicted progress is mapped out and those who are not performing as predicted are highlighted in red. Teachers are under immense pressure to make sure pupils perform as predicted and their own performance related pay is a reflection of their pupils' progress. This shows in the way they treat pupils.

Parents are acutely aware of their children's levels and boast to others about them. Pushy and over-anxious parents can be almost as bad as neglectful ones.

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation has just published a long report about child poverty, which can affect a child's thinking for life.

I really don't think it's helpful to compare children's lives with the past or with those in other countries. Try telling teenagers whose arms are covered with scars from cutting, who are anorexic or are hearing voices that they should pull themselves together, because life was much worse in the olden days.

About ten children from 10-14 commit suicide every year, often with no obvious external cause, such as bullying. Children's mental health services have been devastated by cuts in the NHS and reorganisations which have abolished local education authorities. A mental health worker with inadequate training in every school is no more than a sticking plaster. I doubt if they can afford it anyway.