Will your grandchild's school be affected by education cuts? Find out...

spelling /typos due to predictive text and not checking - because I am cooking lunch.

Since the GE is over now maybe I can add two pence worth?

I was taught in a calls of 48+ when I was at school. We had outside toilets, shared books and often had no writing materials. It was cold in winter (the school milk provided free at point of delivery of course was frozen in winter and we used to put it on the radiators to thaw before break.

Neither was the classroom designed to take 48+ pupils.

This was the mid 1960's/ early 1970's.

Yet most learned to read and write and had an education of sorts which was probably superior to that most are getting today.

It wasn't that the teachers were any better. Most had come through a system where they had taken a Cert Ed based on having a School Leaving Certificate which had five matriculated subjects on it (Later called O levels). A good number were also post war trained teachers who had taken the one year course in teaching when they got out of the forces. Graduates were mostly only found in independent schools or Grammar schools.

What was different was that most children were well disciplined and self disciplined too. They paid attention, were quiet (largely) when told to be so. They didnt answer back. They were obedient to authority.

There was far less disruption and most of all, there were no children with any kind of learning difficulties or educational needs in those classrooms. Such children went to different schools in rather larger numbers than now and had special teachers.

Nowadays the biggest problem facing a teacher is just hanging on to classroom control in the face of children who simply have not learned to be obedient to authority, who have no self discipline ( anhd if you try to impose any , their parents are in the school, in your face and shouting the odds in aggressive tones - no better than their offspring)). Add to that children with a multitude of learning needs and emotional issues ( and lets not forget language difficulties too as that is an issue that would not have existed at all in my days at school) and basically classes become unteachable. Even control and management are difficult.

Throwing money at schools ( or removing it) wont make any difference until there is a will to change that social pattern. No one wants to address that.

The biggest privileged pupils in an independent school have is that their parents care enough to have taught them some basic manners such that they do not pose discipline or other difficulties in class. Most parents ( like it or not) are paying to remove their children from the more challenging behaviour and issues described above. They pay more than anything else to remove their children from those with "special needs" too...... not PC but it is what goes on.

Where independent schools may sometimes take children with some educational learning needs parents of those children will pay twice - once for the school and then for their LSA to accompany that child in classes and , min may independents, if your child causes problems, they are invited to leave at as soon as they can get a parent into the school to collect them ( and they are not allowed back!).

Now, I know that reality check there may not go down well.

Agreed, Celia. Let's hope enough other voters do.

The answer to all your complaints is clearly to vote Labour next week. Labour is committed to free education of the standard we need to fill the jobs and run the country of the future from nursery to university level. Yes it will be expensive, yes it has been costed, and yes the money will be there when we change the iniquitous tax system that takes from those with low incomes and gives to those with large incomes. Let's change the current culture of greed and go back to a more inclusive society.

PS. The private school in my town has just announced that it's closing in September, because it can't attract enough pupils. Goodness knows what will happen to the 240 pupils, because the local schools haven't any places.

Some schools during the war were appalling. My mother was evacuated from an urban school to rural Herefordshire at the age of 10. She went to a village school for children from the age of 5 to 14. My mother had never excelled at school,but when she was in Herefordshire, she was moved to the top class and was one of the most advanced. There were children who couldn't read by the age of 14.

My grandmother was so horrified that she took my mother back home after six months, despite the bombs.

The school my children attended is losing over £1 million, which equates to 22 teachers.

I was horrified to see an ad in my local paper for volunteers to invigilate GCSE and A level exams. Firstly,I can't really imagine why anybody would want to invigilate for no pay. Secondly, although invigilating isn't a difficult job, it's an important and responsible one. There have been cases of maladministration and cheating, so it's important that invigilators have proper training. Unfortunately, some pupils have no respect for outside invigilators and won't obey instructions.

There was a discussion on the radio this morning about a school where the head couldn't afford cleaners so was getting the pupils to do it instead.

Heaven preserve me from people who go on about how big their class size was and how everyone could read and write. First of all they couldn't there were many illiterate people they managed because it was easy to get factory or manual work when you didn't need to be literate. Secondly times have changed and teachers cope with all the ills of society, children who are emotionally damaged, children with complex special needs, children who have no family support, children whose families are aggressive and anti-social and children who are high flyers. Along with that are the demands of the parents. Personally I'd like to leave anyone who goes on about class sizes with 30 year 4or5s for a morning just so they know what it's like.

"at least our teacher could see if we were struggling". Well not always. I know of at least one person in my school who was always struggling because their desk was at the back where, because of sight problems they did not want to bring to the teacher's attention, they were unable to see what was written on the board. When the problem was finally uncovered, a pair of glasses and a seat nearer the front revealed a child with the potential to do well, not one permanently at the bottom of the class because no-one realised she couldn't see.

Lillie where are you coming from? People already living in London can get jobs far easier and better paid than teaching. Teachers can't afford to stay there. Very few young people can, they house share, pay exorbitant rents and eventually look for work and property somewhere cheaper.

dj The most feasible way to recruit new staff in London is to draw from those already living in the area. The properties they are living in will be increasing far faster than their salaries ever will! Those from further afield considering the jobs are sadly always aghast at the cost of housing and daily living etc.

Experigran, yes desks, (proper ones with lids), in rows every time for me too! I taught for several years abroad and that kind of seating was de rigueur.

So do you live on the job, like the head at my old school did, and my grandmother?
Even a head at a private school in London can't afford a million for a house, can she?

Ooh dear, haha "loosing"would be funny! Sorry, I wasn't alert enough to check my typos at 5.30 am.
Unfortunately even though the teachers may earn well over the norm, average properties are in excess of £1 million, rents are very high, as is transport etc. I could go on. It's not the job which puts them off, but the cost of living. It's the same problem for nurses in the capital, both in the NHS and in the private sector.
Of course, no education is ever a waste for the individual concerned.

I was educated during the war. Many lessons were taught in a shelter underneath the playground. We did not have enough pencils to go round, so writing was learned using sand trays. We had 48 pupils in my class. School hours were from 9 am to 4 pm. By the time we were seven we could all read, write and do basic mathematics. I believe that teaching would improve if the children were seated, as we were, in rows facing the teacher. At least our teachers could see if we were struggling. I understand that it is to make learning fun for children. First lesson - life is not necessarily fun. You need to work at it. Once you have mastered the basics, you can learn anything. Until then you are limited. I agree with a previous poster who said that children can be educated in a garden shed. Too many subjects - too soon. Guess I'm just getting old!

Coming from a teacher I am amazed that you consider any form of education a waste

Loosing? Setting them loose on the pupils? There's a picture.
Sorry, but my son would never apply to your school for a job; neither would any of the other teachers in the family. Teaching in a faith school is somewhat against our principles, but even I had to do that once, as did my son and daughter in law, simply because there were no jobs at schools other than faith schools at the time.

You've answered your own question anyway. Why do teachers working in your school not get paid enough to live there?
What a criminal waste. Do you not have housing to go with the job?

By the way, nowadays people pay for their degrees, so it's not the taxpayers money they are 'wasting'. Teaching skills are quite transferrable, so it's not a waste.

I rest my case dj. My privilege now is without doubt, related to my background, it's almost impossible to have one without the other. I have experience of being on both sides of the fence.

Of course we won't be loosing any teachers at our school. What does strike me as strange though, is that despite many teachers being made redundant, the number of applications for new posts we offer is very very low. Ok, so we are in the most expensive area of the country and a teacher's salary wouldn't go very far, ok, so not everyone wants to work in the independent sector, but I would imagine that many of these disillusioned out of work teachers are leaving the profession for good, never to teach again. What a criminal waste of yet more money.

The last school I taught at will lose 16 teachers.
How many will yours lose, Lillie?

Just started new thread 'Pollsters predict shock Tory Losses'. I wonder if a hung parliament would affect what the schools would get?

Except I didn't say anything about your background. I said flaunting your privilege, now.
Are you saying there is no privilege in class size and money?

Pardon? My grandmother was a clergyman's wife, not a teacher, or are you addressing dj? ..... Although, you're right Hellomonty, my grandmother's offspring all received free education at public schools which advanced them greatly in life.
dj may think I am flaunting my "privileged background", - just goes to show how wrong she can be about one's humble beginnings!

lillie your grandmother was teaching at a time when the children of the working classes were drilled in basics (which of course there is a need for too!), because they were being prepared by the state to enter the factories which needed a massive workforce which were educated enough to do repetitive and minimally skilled tasks (whilst not being educated enough to start to question the status quo too much). They were not taught the skills or knowledge required in order to enter into higher education or leadership. The children of the upper and middle classes were being taught those skills in small classes in public schools or one to one with private tutors or governesses.

That kind of mass scale, minimally individualised, education is relatively easy to do in large numbers, especially when the only adult in the room is allowed to use a weapon to physically assault the naughty or the "stupid". And no one in government really cared if these children did not learn. Dyslexic? Disabled? Down syndrome? Deaf? Blind? Not worth the effort to even try and teach.

God forbid that our rose-tinted view of the past disguises the barbaric, socially unfair and sub-standard practices of the past.

Neither do I, Tegan. None of my granddaughter's friends have enough money to pay for the private schools round here.