GCSE State/Public Schools

But we don’t have the same opportunities for anything else in life Pecs so why should education be any different? I note as I proved that you had said life was tough in my post you chose to unpick something else I said to “prove” your point. You don’t like others to disagree with you do you?

No jane10 we all have choices to make & should do. Just think education is something fundamental we are all entitled to and all should have access to similar goid educational opportunities.

Just “lobbying for extra funding” won’t make it happen. And not necessarily within the time frame to benefit your own offspring.

"we worked very hard to pay for it and did without many things to do so, few holidays , I drove an old car, spent little on myself because my children’s education was more important to me.*

Well 1000s of people would say that! But they still would not have enough for Private Education! If we are using anecdotal evidence I did not have a car at all & we did not have holidays for years unless my parents paid! But that is not my point!,

My issue is with the whole system being set up as it is, to add advantage to those who are already advantaged.

Of course I understand the motives of those who prioritise their own children over others. I just don't agree with it!

It does not always mean other children end up in smaller classes. Our local primary school had seven teachers so all the children were in a class of children the same age (within a year). Then two children were removed to a private school.

Our Tory CC removed a teacher and all the children in the school were affected by reshuffling seven year vrouls into six classes. One of my children was in a class of 41.

At that time all the Tory councillors on the education committee sent their own children to private schools where the classes were much smaller.

PECS you want there to be no choice for anyone? Just iron out human nature? Now that's dangerous as well as insulting!

Muffin I absolutely agree with you I gave every advantage I could to my children and would do it again. It does not make either of us a bad person but the best parent we can try to be

Pecs you said “ please don’t tell me how tough life was for you”
Also if someone doesn’t use the state system ( in my case two places) then that means in the year of non use there is a slightly smaller class to the advantage of the children of that year) . My comment of the rebate was not literal but whether I use the state system or not my taxes pay for it. I know it’s not workable but it would have been nice to put my education tax into the NHS for example instead

We turned down a scholarship place for DD1. She went to the local girl's state school, went to the local 6th form college and met up again with the girls from primary who had paid for their education but wanted a mixed 6th form.

Elbows are naturally unusually pointy PECS

I completely agree with you about the corrosive effect of entrenching socioeconomic equality in this particular way, btw; but I do not have the hypocrisy to pretend I am not going to do it myself, because I am. It is undoubtedly not the correct choice from a societal point of view, but I am satisfied that it will confer enough advantage lifetime on my children that I am going to do it for them.

I am a bad person and accept this.

I had to laugh at the comment that private schools hothouse students through public exams.
I used to wonder how the school we sent our sons to ever managed to get such excellent results when the emphasis was so much on sport. I assume the quality of teaching was high but in retrospect I feel the excellent results were more to do with expectations and discipline both within the school and at home. Behaviour was impeccable (it had to be or the child had to leave). Teachers were respected and listened to. Everyone expected to go to University and did.

We paid taxes which went towards the state educational system but never used it. If private schools didn't exist the education pot would have to stretch even further so nobody would benefit.

muffin where do you buy your boots and elbow daggers?

crystaltipps were the rich, influential and vocal sections of the community made to send their children to a local state school they would no doubt lobby for better funding as it is they are quite happy to see an underfunded system because it doesn't affect them (and many of them are MPs)

I will buy every life advantage for my children that the law and my income allows.

I cannot put it more bluntly than that.

In a time of rising and entrenched inequality, with the majority of predictions being that socioeconomic inequality in the UK will continue to rise over coming decades, I am not prepared to bet my children's life chances on their ability to rise in a pure meritocracy. Because the UK isn't one now, if it ever was.

I will leverage all the advantages I can for them of their being born to a particular socioeconomic class. I consider this my basic duty to them as their parent.

I fully understand by doing this there will be a consequential detrimental effect to other children with whom they will compete in the education and job markets. I don't care. Those other children are not my children. My duty is to maximise the life chances of my own children as my parents did for me.

I will stop buying advantage for my children and leveraging my social connections for their advantage just as soon as all the other parents stop doing that too.

Yes there is inequality here- some people will never be able to afford private education- surely then we should be calling for education to be given much higher priority by our esteemed politicians. What ever you think of Tony Blair’s legacy - his government did put a lot more cash into education, much of which has now been cut under austerity programmes. Schools are having to get rid of teaching assistants, libraries, music tuition etc all of which were built up in the recent past. It’s heartbreaking. It’s not right to argue that abolition of private schools would somehow raise standards in the state system- not without extra funding they won’t.

Quote not qote
(I did get an edukashun)

PECS I knew that someone would qote Cuba as an example - I was just waiting for it!

A minnow compared to some regimes.

You insult a huge number of families in your remarks Jane10
The majority of parents want the best fot their children and do prioritise education.
What they don't all have is the myth of choice!
Choice to move to a different area, choice to only work when kids are at school, choice to buy activities and experiences that will enrich their lives, choice to go on holiday...

I'm thinking China, Russia. Rounding everything down didn't work too well there in those huge countries.
Dangerous to stamp out the will to strive and achieve for the benefit of one's children.
We'll never agree on this. Pointless to continue.

The NHS is better in some areas than others though, too.

Jalima In Cuba the literacy rate is higher than in the US.

And governments have also created a system where some state funded schools can determine their own admissions criteria..so cost of homes in the vicinity of a school seen as successful rise so high that the area changes from being socially mixed communities to more middle class professional enclaves.

It would be wonderful if all state schools were excellent. However, human nature, as ever, intervenes. Parents have very varied attitudes to child rearing and very varied attitudes to priorities. Maybe its a UK thing or maybe its more of a universal aversion to being told what to do, what is the 'right' thing. Choice exists. It would be very worrying to remove it.
As to improving state schools, increase taxation? carry out all the various forms of social support that are talked about all the time, tackle gang culture, sort out drugs, so much to do before thinking of abolishing schools that just quietly get on with providing education for those who choose to prioritise it.

There is much that needs to be put right in this country but it's a darned sight better than any Marxist system I have heard about.

Interesting isn't it that the principles behind the NHS are not applied to the education system. That we do not have an education service which supplies the same service for everyone. Why not? Now people with money can buy a better service and the free service struggles to cope with the most difficult children. Of course there are those working in public service jobs who will never be able to pay for their children's education, people like nurses, firefighters, bin men. All providing essential services and in some areas scarcely able to afford a house. The same areas where state schools are failing.
If people with money and influence had to send their children to the nearest state school standards would soon improve.