A level grade leak

But Sue that’s not A level Maths - honestly it isn’t. The point is that in many jobs you need to be numerate, to be able to calculate, manipulate numbers but you don’t need an A level in maths. What I hope all medics and nurses ( in fact all clinical staff) come out of their training with is the ability to read and evaluate a research paper.

varian I don’t know how old you are and I know you are referring to the Scottish system. I took my A levels 54 years ago and the world was a very different place - I wouldn’t dream of drawing any comparisons. A very small % took A levels and the whole format and structure was very different and aimed at a much more tightly defined group, I do know though that norm referencing was practised even then ( ie setting grade boundaries although it would not have been called that then). There was nothing like the transparency we have now but if examiners from the 60s were around, they would tell of shifting the pass mark to broadly reflect the norm of previous years. But we wouldn’t have known of this. This year’s A level cohort also faced a very different GCSE maths exam ( don’t know about other subjects) and in general the exam system has been subject to much upheaval over the years which is difficult for all the players in the system. Of course there will be much analysis but it’s not so much what % the pass mark is but what it’s a % of . It’s easy getting 90% of something simple

grandtanteJE65 My DD is a nurse. As an example of why mathematics is important for doctors and nurses, she has to be able to calculate how much of a specific medication to draw into a syringe, and then how much water to add to bring it to the correct amount to keep a syringe driver going for the time required while delivering the correct dosage of - say - morphine to the patient. There is obviously no room for error in such calculations...!

According to the Times A level maths pupils only need a mark of 14% to pass this year in one exam board.

This is nonsense. The exam surely must be too hard. 14% is meaningless. Maths is a rigorous subject and for a pass to mean anything it should mean the candidate got a minimum of 50%.

When I sat my Highers there were only three pass grades. I think we were told that an A grade needed 80%, B grade 65% and C grade 50%. If you got between 40% and 50% a pass at Lower Maths was awarded.

In Scotland at that time Highers and Lowers were both taken in the fifth year so if you were good at a subject you would be entered at the Higher level. Giving "a Lower out of a Higher" as it was called at least ensured that someone who was borderline didn't end up with nothing. Most people who ended up with a Lower would have gone on to resit the exam at the Higher level.

I was moaning to a doctor friend one day that I always end up having to tell my GP what I want done and my friend said well always remember they may have only passed their medical exams with 50% so they only know half.

Multiply up my numbers - I was thinking of the students in one school, not schools throughout the country. When thinking up alternative ways to test, be sure to remember that for each exam each year, marking standards should not vary between one school and the next, or be biassed by the markers knowing the pupls personally.

I agree that an A pass should be a great deal higher than 55%, but I don't see the relevance of maths to medicine. Most GPs look the correct dosage up in MIMS or another pharmaceutical catalogue.

SheilaSue How would you assess how a couple of hundred students knew all they should know of what you had taught them, and could apply the mathematics involved in all possible situations - most of those situations stressful? I am sure the examining boards would be grateful for all solutions.

Suziewoozie has explained the process very well. It is indeed far more fair to set grade boundaries carefully each year taking into account all relevant information including the relative demand of the questions and the characteristics of that year's cohort. It is intended to ensure that candidates get the correct award no matter which year they sit the exam and is, on the whole, very successful at doing so.
A huge amount of effort and expertise goes into setting the exams, marking, quality assuring the marking, and setting the grade boundaries each year.
Various qualifications bodies explain the process on their website:
qualifications.pearson.com/en/support/support-topics/results-certification/understanding-marks-and-grades.html
www.sqa.org.uk/sqa/files_ccc/A_Guide_to_Setting_Grade_Boundaries_v1.3.pdf

These exams should be scrapped absolute rubbish. Surely someone can come up with something that’s less stressful. Rediculous and old fashioned.

Regarding maths my husband obtained O level Maths in mid sixties and used his trigonometry learned for that on building sites throughout his working life.

On sites he had A level students and indeed maths graduates through 1970-90s who couldn’t do what he could do without insisting on calculators and computers to help them.

My DD did both nursing and midwifery degrees. In both she was expected to pass maths modules or would not have been able to continue her degrees. Perhaps medics have to do similar?

The reduction in pass levels has been going on for 20 years at least. A Professor friend who lectured at a top level University was so fed up being asked to reduce his pass levels that he emigrated to Canada. That was 1999.

april with all respect to your daughter, she was being tested on her arithmetic and ability to manipulate numbers, not her mathematics.

allule yes I think many students were upset after their exams but the grade awarded because of the use of grade boundaries will reflect their relative achievements and I’m sure getting the grade they deserve this morning will have banished all the upset felt straight after the exams.

Pittcity it’s the % that’s fallen - to use absolute numbers would be a bit silly for comparative purposes wouldn’t it? The innumerate journalists we suffer use words carelessly.

Obviously grades need to be adjusted with regard to the dufficulty of the paper, but
I feel this paper must have been too difficult, and left students feeling disheartened, rather than satisfied that they had shown what they were capable of.

According to BBC news there were less A grades this year than last. But 2001 was a low birth rate year...I know as DS got his A level results this morning and he has been in classes of 17 pupils, whereas DGS has 34 in his class.
His was also the last year to take AS levels.

My DD did a Nurse Prescribers course a couple of years ago. She had to get 100 per cent in the maths questions in order to pass.

Completely agree elegran, I really don't understand this hoohah (sp?) - obviously it's impossible to arrange for papers to be equally hard every year, so grade boundaries have to change to take this into account. A real non-story IMO

Bbut, Rosina several people (ones who know what they are talking about) have replied that the level of ability and hard work of those taking the exam is at the same percentage each year, and that is known to their tutors.

What changes is the exact level of the questions in the exam. That questions in the exam are different each year - they have to be, there isn't time to test every single kind of calculation that had been studied. If the same paper were used every year, students could just swot up those questions and not other things, then they wouldn't know the other things at all. The examiners try to set questions which are equal in difficulty, but there are always variations.

In a year where the questions are harder, the students get an A for lower actual marks than in a year when the questions are easy. That is more fair on them than getting a "just passed" on a hard paper, when last year they would have got "distinction" on an easy one.

I just thank god that I am not in education (as a student) now, the pressure on them from year 1 is horrendous. It's all exams and results and university. I seem to remember when I took my O-levels you only went on to 6th form and A-levels if you wanted a particular career. It's all a ploy to keep down unemployment figures. I feel so sorry for youngsters today.

I agree Rosina.
I do have some knowledge of the exam system, but I’m not an expert by any means. My husband taught in an independent school, he taught ages 11 to 18. I taught much younger children in a state school, so whatever I know comes from what my DH told me. He was also Deputy Head and crucially, Examination Secretary. He has told me for years that both the GCSE and A level examination have been dumbed down year on year. He had a lot to do with the various examination boards, he was aware of the curriculum for all the subjects even though he taught Classics, French, and a bit of maths, and was involved and proactive in getting kids who didn’t get the grades required into university etc etc. So I think he knows what he’s talking about.
The grade inflation has been happening for years. When our own children took their A levels at his school, the percentage required for an A grade was pretty high, usually around 80% or more. The percentage was steadily dropped allowing more children to achieve high grades.
More recently the system has moved towards less or no modular examinations, just as it was when we grandparents took our A levels. That will make the examinations more taxing, quite rightly, as A levels were never meant to be easy, they were designed to show if students would be able to cope with university studies. Of course nowadays, students don’t just enter university with A levels as we tended to do, they open doors to many careers, quite rightly. But to pretend that they are are taxing as they once were is to bury your head in the sand.
Nonetheless I hope all the students receiving their grades today will have achieved what they hoped for and can move forward in the chosen paths.

The AS level is still going strong Crystaltips

I felt strongly that travel's comment was also harsh and entirely unjustified. So be it.