Foreign languages in UK schools - really poor offer and take up - WHY?

growstuff you said
As far as I am aware, the only compulsory subject in England and Wales (sorry, don't know about Scotland) is RE, which must be taught but not necessarily to exam level
In actual fact RE along with sex education is one of the subjects pupils can opt out of (for obvious reasons) although some parts of the curriculum for sex education are compulsory for science subjects.
The others are compulsory -not optional.

Nannan I realise that, DGS goes to a Catholic primary school; however, I was just musing that teaching some basic Latin at an early age rather than a specific modern language would provide a good basis for learning the Romance languages at senior school.
I agree, it's not likely to happen.

Spanish is widely spoken around the world but isn't German the second most widely spoken language in Europe after English?
One of my DC learnt French and German at school, doesn't use them much at all, but has had to learn some Japanese for career purposes!

But, however hard some people try, they just do not have an aptitude for languages but could be very inteligent in other areas.

* Entschuldigung its not it's

Actually I found the boys enjoyed German, with it's somewhat mathematical rules, more than the Romance languages.

When my students could not decide which to take, I always said German- as it was clear that in so many professions (international Law, accountancy, sciences) it was more sought after, partly because so few took it up to A'Level and beyond.

When I was Head of Dpt/Senior teacher in a high school, I wanted to have at least one class per intake to be taught German, to try and stop the French bias on the system. The Head and Governors said it was a brilliant idea- they all agreed. But it was decided not to go ahead, as they said that if I left, they could not guarantee finding a replacement to take over the German classes. As it were, I did go and teach in a 6th Form a couple of years later- but a Polish colleague who taught German stayed for another 20 years.

It is a vicious circle. My GS, 13, at a very good Independent school is taking French and chose Latin instead of German as second FL. In a way I was disappointed (as I could have helped him, and because of above) - but on the other hand, it is nowadays a real privilege to have the opportunity to study Latin.

That is so galling for me as the Head who took over after I retired decided to axe German in favour of Spanish which was perceived as “easier”
Ah well.

German overtakes French as the language most sought-after by employers

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/top-language-skills-german-french-english-brexit-a8861971.html

Most spoken languages:

www.fluentin3months.com/most-spoken-languages/

trisher They have to offer the subjects, but they can't force their pupils to take them. There's a difference.

Some schools effectively stop their pupils reaching GCSE level in foreign languages because they don't have enough timetable slots to teach languages effectively. They prefer to concentrate on English, maths and science, which are worth more points in league tables.

Over 70% of secondary schools are academies, so can teach what they want, but most still stick to the same kind of offering. When the National Curriculum was first introduced, schools really were constrained to making their pupils learn a little of everything. By the way, this was the first problem for MFL, because all pupils had to study subjects such as technology and there was no room left to study two languages. My son, who went to one of the first converter academies, studied all the compulsory subjects, but didn't do any technology or arts subjects. He chose to do geography, history, Latin and German as his options, which he couldn't have done when the NC was first introduced.

Latin, what's that? I went to a rough London comprehensive back in the day and yet managed to get into Cambridge to study French. I was supposed to attend extra classes in Latin but that only lasted a couple of weeks! I still ended up with a top degree, mainly because I loved my subject (and aldo because a found a French boyfriend during my year abroad!)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that a bright pupil who has an aptitude for languages will do well regardless of the teaching or resources available. It's all the other mediocre students who find languages so difficult who we need to encourage and engage more. I really don't know the answer.

Wiki says Spanish is second growstuff ahead of English.
German is mostly useful because of its scientific links.

If you can't do the link
Child Law Advice logoInformation

National Curriculum at Secondary School
This page provides information on the subjects that schools in England must teach in Key Stage 3 and Key Stage 4 and offers advice on what to do if you want to withdraw your child from certain subjects or examinations.

What subjects does my child’s school have to teach?
All maintained schools must follow the National Curriculum at Key Stage 3 (Years 7, 8 and 9) and Key Stage 4 (Years 10 and 11) as outlined below.

Academies and Free Schools do not have to follow the National Curriculum. However they still have to teach some subjects as part of their Education Funding Agreement with the Department for Education. You can get a copy of the Academy’s Education Funding Agreement from the Academy or Education Funding Agency.

Independent schools do not have to follow the National Curriculum.

For further information on the different types of school see our information page on Types of School.

What subjects must maintained schools teach?
Key Stage 3
Compulsory National Curriculum subjects in Key Stage 3 (Years 7, 8 and 9) are:

English
Maths
Science
History
Geography
Modern Foreign Languages
Design and Technology
Art and Design
Music
Physical Education
Citizenship
Computing
Key Stage 4
During Key Stage 4 most pupils work towards national qualifications such as GCSEs. The compulsory National Curriculum subjects are the ‘core’ and ‘foundation’ subjects.

Core subjects are:

English
Maths
Science (minimum – Single Science)
Pupils must take core subjects – recent government legislation also means that pupils without a pass in English and Maths will be required to retake these between the ages of 16 and 18.

Foundation subjects are:

Computing
Physical Education
Citizenship
Schools must also offer at least one subject from each of the following areas:

Arts
Design and Technology
Humanities
Modern Foreign Languages

Spanish is the fourth most spoken language in the world after Mandarin, English and Hindustani.

German is the most spoken language in Europe and the one surveys of business have said is most useful.

growstuff the Child Law society disagree with you. Academies and Free schools may change but maintained schools can't

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/national-curriculum-at-secondary-school/

Nannan, It depends which science course is followed. Pupils study a combination of biology, physics and chemistry, but will be awarded a triple certificate, double or single, depending on the level studied.

There will be arguments about what should be in the curriculum until the cows come home. It depends very much on how people perceive the purpose of education.

As far as I am aware, the only compulsory subject in England and Wales (sorry, don't know about Scotland) is RE, which must be taught but not necessarily to exam level.

Academy chains have their own systems which they impose on their schools, but schools are free to have their own option systems. The days of the National Curriculum imposing subjects are long gone.

Nevertheless, most secondary schools have a similar offering. Maths, English and Science are compulsory, along with PE and RE.

The number and flexibility of option choices varies. Some schools make a humanity and a foreign language compulsory. Pupils usually have a choice of three or four options.

Subjects in the option blocks usually include art, music, drama, DT, IT, languages (if not a compulsory subject), geography, history and possibly a range of vocational subjects, such as childcare.

It is still possible for pupils to choose two foreign languages in some schools, but it depends whether they've had the opportunity to learn them in the first two or three years of secondary school. Some schools try to do short courses, generally without much success.

I currently work with pupils from about 10 different schools (state and independent) and I know how their curriculum works.

* trisher* Yes. That's what GS always tells me!

Callistemon I agree with your point about knowledge of Latin being useful in learning european languages.
I once tried to learn Russian, and was surprised that much of the grammar comes from latin.
I didn't get far. Learning to read is relatively simple, once you know the alphabet. But to be able to have a conversation is another thing entirely.
I can read and translate hebrew, but could never have a conversation with a native speaker of hebrew.

Not quite the same in Scotland.
There are eight curricular areas
Expressive arts.
Health and wellbeing.
Languages (including English, Gaidhlig, Gaelic learners and modern languages)
Mathematics.
Religious and moral education.(Not just in Catholic schools)
Sciences.
Social studies.
Technologies.

There are now only 3 core groups english maths science,(also RE in catholic school)and then 3 choice options,but the sciences in core group are then split into 3 different sciences,and english into language/literature.my son took 21 exams but then the results are all 'convoluted' down to a handful of GCSE results overall.( in the old days of doing it if you took an exam,biology for example,you got 1 result for that,A,B,C etc.it was more straightforward!)It seems like now they make the kids study a LOT of different subjects then dish them out very few rewards,(i.e.GCSE) for all the hard work.(e.g.you get one pass for science,even though you've had to study and revise 3 different science subjects)The gov'ment made it all very complicated these days

I learned Latin at secondary school, which made learning my other foreign languages so much easier.
It also gave me a good grounding in grammar.
If I'm stuck with the meaning of a foreign word, I can usually work out the rough meaning.
I can still remember lots of Latin, after all these years.

I went to a grammar school after passing my 11 plus. My mother couldn't afford the very expensive uniform, even the colour of my knickers was dictated.
She paid it up at the local Co-op and managed to get a small grant from the local authority to help with costs.
It certainly wasn't easy.

Maybe as more generations pass,parents become less bothered about keeping their 'own' original language alive for their future generations..oh and calistemon,latin is not even taught in catholic schools,so theyre not going to teach it in other primary or secondary schools.its all funding amongst other things.

Nannan a very low percentage of Welsh parents speak Welsh. It is more prevalent in some areas of course.

As I posted on another thread, hilarious interpretations can occur:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7702913.stm

I thought welsh was spoken to welsh children from babies so they know their own mother tongue,as well as english?Same as other countries do? In france,germany etc,all over the world in fact, families surely do that?so why wouldn't welsh parents do so too?I even hear polish parents in my local area speaking to their children in both polish and english.(having said that,my youngest son was at school with a boy half english half italian,who cannot speak italian)!

It might be Nannan2 but who would teach them?
Gonegirl Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world so actually a lot more useful than French (but not for your holiday! )