School staff not allowed to wear masks

My granddaughter goes back to primary school tomorrow. I will let you know what is in place and how it is going. Schools in England will have the example of what works and what doesn’t work in Scotland before you go back in September. Here we are taking a leap of faith.

As a retired teacher I would say that it’s pretty impossible to teach wearing a mask. I certainly haven’t heard that this is happening in UK schools anyway. For one thing teacher unions are so strong and militant they wouldn’t allow it.

Two reports suggest that younger pupils are just as capable as transmitting virus as anybody else, despite often being asymptomatic and/or only suffering a mild form of the disease.

www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/07/31/new-evidence-suggests-young-children-spread-covid-19-more-efficiently-than-adults/#411d5fa219fd

That's dangerous because nobody will know they're infected if they're asymptomatic and not tested. The government is currently ruling out routine testing for pupils, despite advice from scientists.

Gwyneth

As a retired teacher I would say that it’s pretty impossible to teach wearing a mask. I certainly haven’t heard that this is happening in UK schools anyway. For one thing teacher unions are so strong and militant they wouldn’t allow it.

I'm not sure what unions wouldn't allow.

You must have had a different experience of teaching unions from me because I always found them a bit wimpish.

Parsley3

My granddaughter goes back to primary school tomorrow. I will let you know what is in place and how it is going. Schools in England will have the example of what works and what doesn’t work in Scotland before you go back in September. Here we are taking a leap of faith.

Good luck! I hope it works out well. I thought Westminster might have learnt about using Scotland as a guinea pig after the poll tax fiasco.

Also, many schools are very large these days, with very many adults working there, teachers, support staff, site maintenance, cleaners, kitchen staff, visiting music teachers ... . So, there is that potential for virus-spreading. Teachers in our school no longer have a 'base' and will now be the ones moving from class to class, while children stay in their bubbles. As we go into the autumn/winter, we have to brace ourselves for some more difficult times I fear, especially those who already have those underlying health conditions.

Possibly teach without the mask but I’m thinking back to the faculty office where you prepared lessons did admin did photocopying etc etc we were pretty cheek by jowl with age range at any given time of 25 to 65 ! With no mask ?

My own observations have been that when an individual needed union support they were indeed wimpish and ineffective. However, in the case of large numbers of teachers needing support it was different. I’m guessing that if teachers were made to sign a declaration not to wear a mask, which would be completely wrong, the unions would take strong action. Difficult situation though I just don’t see how anyone can teach effectively wearing a mask as teaching is all about good communication.

I thought Westminster might have learnt about using Scotland as a guinea pig after the poll tax fiasco

And I though that schools in Scotland always had different summer holidays than those in England ? So they are hardly being used as a guinea pig . Just returning on the dates expected .

Wow! So much offensiveness in here NemosMum I hardly know where to start!

Teachers (yes, and before you say it, I'm a trained teacher) are being frightened by politically-motivated unions! Nope. Staff are frightened because they HAVE been in school for the whole of the lockdown with the children of key workers and have experienced unsafe conditions with FEW children and know that this will be exacerbated when the other 80% pile in!

Perhaps you would overcome that if you were not on gardening leave and 100% pay! Lucky, lucky you for being on gardening leave! None of the teachers I know have been. Online lessons. Setting work. Marking work remotely (work done online in online workbooks they created and set up for the children in their classes). No, some children didn't do or engage with the work but that is down to parents, not teachers.

Time to get back to work (without masks which DO interfere with learning). I reiterate, ALL of the teachers I know (I estimate I have maybe 25 teacher friends) have worked all the way through the pandemic so far. As I said before LUCKY YOU for not having to work!

How do masks interfere with learning? I taught in China wearing a mask and still managed to get 15 A* and 15 A & B IGCSE grades out of a class of 30.

You are in no danger from the children. What a load of tosh. Children of any age carry and pass on the virus like any other person.

young people, who have been massively disadvantaged by this virus. The ONLY part of your off load of unsubstantiated and largely untrue opinion I agree with. We have ALL been massively disadvantaged by the virus. My brother, who can't return to work because of ongoing virus issues. My neighbour who is grieving his late wife (C19). My grandson who hasn't had another child to play with in 5 months (and who won't for the foreseeable because it isn't safe). It isn't as if children stand alone and have been unduly punished.

Talk about first world problems! They have work. They have teachers available online. You get into your classroom without a mask if you wish. Your choice. But teachers should have the choice if they want to wear them or not. The unions are toothless now. Nothing they can do.

alig99

I think OP is mainly talking about the reaction in the States. Obviously in UK no one can make you sign anything. And in the UK there has been no announcements yet in what is worn, when and where. Remember this is not the States and our teaching unions are very powerful. FYI I think schools should go back as I think the impact on kids especially teenagers will be worse than the possibility of getting CV19.

No. I'm talking about the school I worked at in Northumberland. Two of my colleagues have told me the same thing. They were required to sign a document saying they wouldn't wear masks in school. Teaching unions are toothless these days.

I am strongly of the opinion that the staff should have freedom of choice here. I wonder how much compensation the LEAs will have to pay out if an active teacher dies. They should, at the very least, be able to wear shields if not masks. You don't see healthcare staff having to remove protective clothing when they are treating children so why should teachers be of any less worth to society?

Exactly and thank you icanhandthemback. Teachers are happy for some normality. But they should be able to make that choice (mask wearing) themselves.

Yes, I have worked in schools, and know that children and hygiene are not natural bedfellows. But I also know that the children who are kept up to midnight watching porn with their parents would be far better off in school than stuck at home. My school took children from a problem estate, but I am sure it wasn't unique.

Research seemed totally divided as to whether children can pass it on easily or not. There is mercifully no case in the world of a child dying from CV picked up at school. So as with everything else it is individual risk assessment. If a child carer is looking after a mum or grandparent with conditions that make them extra vulnerable, then there is a big worry that they might bring it home. But equally school is probably the only respite these children get.

I don't think teachers will be at any serious risk of passing on the virus to children, who will shrug it off if they do. Children passing the virus to a teacher is a slight risk, but unless the teacher is obese or has serious underlying conditions, then I think we have to put the children first, and their education is vitally important, as is being with their peers, something virtual lessons can't provide.

Every child has a right to a full education in this Country, something sadly lacking in many other parts of the world, and it is something we shouldn't be taking away from them, except in very individual cases.

gillybob

^I thought Westminster might have learnt about using Scotland as a guinea pig after the poll tax fiasco^

And I though that schools in Scotland always had different summer holidays than those in England ? So they are hardly being used as a guinea pig . Just returning on the dates expected .

I know. I wasn't serious, but there's no doubt that England will be keeping a close eye on what happens in Scotland.

And quite tight too . I hope and pray all will be okay and my English DGC can return to education in September as normal . He has had zero interaction with his primary but having said that he hadn’t had a permanent class teacher for almost 2 years .

GagaJo

alig99

I think OP is mainly talking about the reaction in the States. Obviously in UK no one can make you sign anything. And in the UK there has been no announcements yet in what is worn, when and where. Remember this is not the States and our teaching unions are very powerful. FYI I think schools should go back as I think the impact on kids especially teenagers will be worse than the possibility of getting CV19.

No. I'm talking about the school I worked at in Northumberland. Two of my colleagues have told me the same thing. They were required to sign a document saying they wouldn't wear masks in school. Teaching unions are toothless these days.

Was it an academy? Academies can do more or less what they want.

I've heard of other teachers being forbidden from wearing masks, but I don't know if they had to sign anything.

gillybob

And quite tight too . I hope and pray all will be okay and my English DGC can return to education in September as normal . He has had zero interaction with his primary but having said that he hadn’t had a permanent class teacher for almost 2 years .

You're nearish me aren't you gillybob? I'm shocked at that. I've got friends in 3 Northumberland, 2 Newcastle and 1 Sunderland school. They've all been doing online or school provided learning packs. As have teacher friends in schools in East Anglia.

Yes, growstuff. Academy chain. You're right about doing what they want. The way they treat staff AND students is appalling.

I also have a grandchild who will be going back in September, so I have an interest in what happens in England as well.

Yes GagaJo I’m not very far away at all . Older DGD’s have had a fair of interaction but their little brother has had none other than a pretty rubbish workbook given to him in March . He’s not academically minded ( sports crazy) although strangely he has the most beautiful hand writing (irrelevant I know ). He really needed that interaction . He will be year 6 when he returns in September and I sincerely hope he has a permanent class teacher .

Is it an academy? They do seem to do whatever the hell they want. But having said that, my last 2 UK schools were academies and they insisted on very regular work and marking/teacher contact etc.

No it isn’t an academy GagaJo . It’s a large primary in the middle of a very large LA housing estate with a higher than average % of disadvantaged children .

Yep I can believe this to be true but they should stand strong and do what they need to do. It's a choice to be honest, quiet a number of teachers will not be able to survive the day with that mask on .
Most teachers are going to struggle.

My understanding, and I stand to be corrected and probably will be, is that the classes will be bubbled There will be no mixing of the children of one class with another, and that includes the teachers.

My neighbour teaches little ones and her classroom has its own outside play area and food will be eaten at the children’s desks: the dining room is not big enough for social distancing.