Classism and accent prejudice in our universities

Oh and the 'posh speaking' guy- has a posh unusual name too.But none of them cares.

Never heard of a strong lancashire accent being thought of as 'being clever'?in fact i often consider it and a broad yorkshire accent, as 'common' even though im from yorkshire and have lived in lancashire 12 yrs! Im not particular 'yorkshire' sounding though as i spent a chunk of my childhood down south and when we moved back everyone said i sounded too 'posh' but i have always encouraged my children to speak nicely and properly so they too can mix with the best of them if they need to! One of my younger sons started uni last year and he has not experienced this attitude- and his small study group has one very 'posh' guy 2 from lancashire(born& bred) and my son born in yorkshire- moved to lancs about 10.so they are all different, but no one cares!

what i found shocking about the report of Durham Univ was that students said it was teachers as well as students and other staff who were making disparaging remarks.
www.theguardian.com/education/2020/oct/19/students-from-northern-england-facing-toxic-attitude-at-durham-university

Ellianne Sat 24-Oct-20 15:44:57

Nothing wrong with being an Essex girl

My God-daughter, born in Seven Kings, (it's a suburb of Ilford,) has a BSc & Phd in Chemistry. She now works in research studying the causes of cyanosis.

She is very proud of her Essex heritage, always implying how thick she is.

Kamiso

EllanVannin

Don't be fooled, it's not always the " Tarquin's " who are brainy, in fact when it comes to down to earth common sense they're as thick as two short planks.

It matters not to me what sort of an accent anyone has.

More sheer blind prejudice. There are no doubt some bright and well adjusted Tarquins who do fine until they meet someone who despises them because of a name their parents chose.

Judging ANYONE because of a name they had little choice about is nasty behaviour.

I completely agree. And it's not just the name - I assume that by 'Tarquins' EllanVannin was referring to students from public school backgrounds. To assume that they are all 'as thick as two short planks' is as narrow-minded and foolish as is assuming that anyone from a comprehensive is vulgar or on benefits.

I agree with Ellianne that a lot of students from public schools appear to exude confidence (that is a lot of what their parents have paid for), but at times it really does mask high levels of insecurity.

It does no-one any favours to generalise, and whilst the behaviour that led to the reports about Durham was clearly awful, it is being dealt with, and it makes more sense to act on actual incidences than to let the bad behaviour of a few lead to stereotypes about whole groups of people. I think that a couple of well-publicised examples of crackdowns on snobbery will go a lot further to change behaviour than perpetuating class intolerance.

Years ago I was at a club with an after dinner speaker, the host for the evening introduced him, a bank manager of Welsh origin.
One of the audience exclaimed a very loud “Baaaaa”.
Unfazed in broad Welsh accent the speaker replied

“Well do you see that’s where I learned to be quick”
“Because if you weren’t quick you got the ugly one” (sheep)

Brought the house down

Ellianne

^My daughter was teased for being an Essex Girl when she was at Manchester Uni.^
Nothing wrong with being an Essex girl growstuff. My DGD is one and what you see is definitely what you get! Bright young women many of them.

Some of them are a bit thick too (I've taught plenty of them), but they're just like anywhere really. My daughter speaks BBC English (not Essex/London), which is why she was teased.

My daughter was teased for being an Essex Girl when she was at Manchester Uni.
Nothing wrong with being an Essex girl growstuff. My DGD is one and what you see is definitely what you get! Bright young women many of them.

trisher I do think some of the students from privileged backgrounds exude more confidence, though this is often tinged with arrogance. They have a head start in feeling important and may therefore look down on others.

Iam64

Maybe you were lucky at Manchester. I was always referred to as Trouble at't'mill when working in a large company in Devon in 1968. Many of the head office staff, where I was based, were from London. My northern accent wasn't particularly strong. We moved around the northwest when I was a child and my mother strongly discouraged us picking up the local accent, which we did to fit in. Her message was if you have a broad Lancashire accent, people won't think you're clever and you are.
I often wonder if Johnson delivered his rambling ummm ahhh speeches in Manc or Wigan, whether he'd be dismissed as thick

My daughter was teased for being an Essex Girl when she was at Manchester Uni.

My best friend at London was teased for coming from Barnsley, but I think she quite enjoyed it.

Judging ANYONE because of a name they had little choice about is nasty behaviour.
I'm sure many a Chardonnay will be capable of getting a PhD and not just appearing on TOWIE, (though the latter might be more lucrative!).

janeainsworth why is this happening? Because there is now a wider range of people going to university than there was in the 60s. But some students from privileged backgrounds have always considered themselves better than others. It led before to the distinction between the locals and Uni students- "Town and Gown" Now some of the locals have the nerve to go to the Uni as well!!!

EllanVannin

Don't be fooled, it's not always the " Tarquin's " who are brainy, in fact when it comes to down to earth common sense they're as thick as two short planks.

It matters not to me what sort of an accent anyone has.

More sheer blind prejudice. There are no doubt some bright and well adjusted Tarquins who do fine until they meet someone who despises them because of a name their parents chose.

Judging ANYONE because of a name they had little choice about is nasty behaviour.

I worked in the early 70’s as Personal Secretary to the Advertising Director of Kellogg’s in Manchester. My boss was well spoken, of course, but liked my broad Lancashire accent. A lot of the middle management, particularly the ‘Cheshire set’ which most of them were, wondered out loud how I could or should hold such a position with such an accent.

This got me down to the point where I was grinding my teeth in my sleep and worrying about it when my dad pointed out to me that I was a northern girl (I was only 20) working in a northern factory! I just shrugged my shoulders after that and got on with the job.

By the way, it was a wonderful job, I took his fresh flowers home every week when he got new ones, I got all the magazines and frequently gifts which were going spare. Of course, we all got reduced cereals as well! I went on to hold some very prestigious posts and my accent wasn’t a problem in any of them.

My QM interview was very relaxed Spangler. The professor put his legs up on the desk and lay back in his chair. I thought he would hand me a joint next!

One student with a VERY broad Leicester accent asked me, when I started teaching in 1982 'why I couldn't speak proper like what we do' - class burst out laughing and I'm afraid told her they could understand me perfectly but couldn't understand her half the time.

MissAdventure

Being realistic, having to fight prejudice won't help anyone, either.

My head teacher encouraged me to try for Oxbridge, I didn't, Queen Mary College, University of London, in the heart of The East End was much more preferable.
The best known alumni has to be JFK who was there in 1935. A certain Michael Philip Jagger was there too, but he was a drop out.

Born in Birmingham, I have gone through life accent-wise unrecognised. When revealing my place of birth almost universally interpreted as an intended joke. Much depends on where in any given place you are born and the influence of those around you.

The only point I would make, and regardless of accent, it is always an advantage to speak clearly. On one occasion in 2018, and during freezing winter conditions, the BBC 1 weather forecast given by a young woman with a Scots accent so strong I found it impossible to understand a word she said.

Davidhs

Be realistic, a broad Geordie, Scouse, Brummie or West Country accent is not going to help any student in their working career. There is nothing wrong with regional influence but you do need to be understandable if you are going to need to communicate effectively.
I get really frustrated with having to deal with Indian call centers that are speaking English in a completely different way, many broad British accents are not much better.

This isn’t about broad accents - it’s about regional accents. I’ve got one and when I moved down South I get fed up of comments about it. I just started commenting on their accents and saying how incredibly provincial I found the south. My dd went to Newcastle University ( with her nice Southern accent) so wasn’t teased by the Rahs- of which there were a fair few. She said the most amazing thing about them was their self confidence given how mediocre so many of them were quite frankly. When we first moved to Surrey she was 3. On an early visit to the deli counter at WR, after hearing a naice Surrey lady place her order, she asked me in that lovely clear as a bell piercing voice little children have why the lady couldn’t talk properly ( but more importantly) why she hadn’t said please.

Crossed posts Elegran, but quite apt!

A wee story about getting on when you are considered to be "inferior"....

James Clark Maxwell was called daftie at school in Edinburgh because of his rural accent and clothing. He went on to create the classical theory of electromagnetism, amongst other things. He never lost his accent. When Einstein was asked if he stood on the shoulders of Newton, he said no, he "stood on the shoulders of Maxwell."

Crossed posts, Lemon. None of my children went to English Unis (except one to York for a post-grad course) so I am not au fait with which of them are posh. Edinburgh in the 50s/60s was only posh if you gravitated to the posh lot (like the poor, a posh contingent is always with us anywhere desirable to be seen) but Scottish unis have no history of elitism anyway. The lad o' pairts was always a common sight.

Just change your accent to adapt! I went for interview at Queen Mary London (East End) and my cockney accent went down fine. Then to Royal Holloway London (Bedford Ladies' College) where a plum in the mouth performance gained me an unconditional offer. Exeter University required a bit of lengthening of the vowel sounds and talking about riding holidays, (just a few pony lessons in Wales, but they were none the wiser!) Playing them at their own game worked and as a student it was quite fun experimenting with who one wanted to be in life and how to get there.

PS. Durham needs to get its act together. My God daughter is there and tells a few stories.

Why retaliate in the same stupid way though? They would have laughed and walked off long before you had got to the end of that insult about parents not wanting them.
A simple ‘ F off idiot’ would be better, accompanied by a pitying shake of the head.

No need for the other students to feel got-at. Anyone accused of being "common, vulgar and uneducated." with parents on benefits needs to learn to laugh scornfully at such ignorance. Tell the twits they know F. all about life, having been dumped by parents who couldn't bear to have them live at home they were so stupid and selfish, into a school that couldn't teach them enough to get into the Oxbridge colleges where they wanted to go. Let them into the secret that there are many many different ways to speak - it was what is said that matters, and what is in the brain and heart behind the mouth.