Where were all the special needs students when we were at school?

Looking back and relating to today’s standards there were a lot of children in the C and D streams that had learning difficulties of one sort or another.
There did not appear to be any active help to overcome any disability, they just progressed at a slower pace, when they left school the went into the unskilled and manual trades, we seem to import migrants today to do that work.

nanna8

I posed a question, didn’t mean that I believe that. It is ignorant to pre suppose that. Extremely rude and judgemental. For the record, I think very few of these children show signs of autism because of their parenting but you just go on judging people if it makes you happy and content. I am appalled.

I actually apologised. I wont contribute any more to the thread, which is your loss as I know a lot about it

Yes what a waste, complete loss not to hear Jane's views, but to be honest in my experience a lot of people arent really interested in listening to the actual reality. They just want to put forward their own theories.

JaneJudge, please come back, your views and experience are very welcome to some of us.

JaneJudge It was very interesting reading your views and experiences. I have dyslexia and was thought of probably as a ‘bit thick’ but was lucky enough to have a private tutor while not identifying the dyslexia (don’t know that mainstream teachers knew much about it then) she did teach me to read phonetically and I improved in leaps and bounds and ended up enrolled at a grammar school. When I was finally diagnosed (paid privately for a test) I cried with relief as an adult. Some rather unkind comments here from I think disability sceptics who would perhaps prefer and out of sight out of mind approach to disabled children. I have a friend with a child with Angelmans syndrome and she receives similar comments on a weekly basis.

I think welabel children too quickly these days,examlpe,a child i know was dificult at home beyond words,the child was labeled at having ADHD,yet at school the child was a star pupil and a pleasure to teach,REALY ?.
When i was at school i only remember a few children were slow learners/naughty/a bit thick and the teachers dealt with them.
I think some parents are at fault today,too busy to sit and talk/play with them and allowing them to play on i-pads/lap tops etc that keeps them quiet,sad as it is.

There was a county infant and primary school that I went too. A catholic infant and primary school over the road. A special school where children with different physical or speech problems went too. All the schools were built early 1960s children in our school with spelling reading and writing problems went for separate lessons. My two brothers and sister had separate lessons because of their spelling reading and writing.

My DH has dyslexia. He was put in the 'dunce class' at school even though he was intelligent. He hated school and had no help. He got the impression that the whole class was seen as a lost cause in terms of their future prospects. He went on to run his own successful business.

Since we met (30 years ago) I have encouraged my husband to read more. He never read for pleasure. I understand but find this very sad as I am an avid reader.

I do remember the special schools when I was young.

Also, my great aunt was sent to a 'mental institution' as a teenager. She was 'slow' and was sent there when she was about 13 after smacking a woman who she saw smacking a child. She was there until she died in her 70's. I used to visit her with my Grandma. She was a lovely lady.

(Words in quotes as those were the words I remember being used at the time - don't mean to offend).

timetogo I have ADHD and I was a star pupil at school. I’m also pretty successful in my chosen field - that doesn’t mean that my condition isn’t incredibly difficult to live with. I’m constantly finding workarounds to function and when I was a child my parents definitely had a different experience of me than school did!

Isn't the thread about having our own views?
Surely? We read, we listen, we hear and then we join in if we think our contribution will add something extra into the discussion.

This topic interests me because of several people I have known who have special needs and had to negotiate difficult childhoods.
When their residential home closed in the 1990s. 2 ladies aged about 65 who had been in there since they were small girls, were at last able to live in supported housing together. It became clear to their carers that there wasn't much wrong with them intellectually but one was deaf and the other born with a hare lip and cleft palette. Their speech was difficult to follow. The carer who introduced me to them (I taught them pottery) explained how they had been "put away" as small children and had become completely institutionalized.

Both have died since but I like to think they enjoyed a few happy years.

In a different circumstance the DM of a Downs syndrome boy was desperate that he shouldn't go to the special school which offered no teaching at all but rather to be with more able students so that he was stimulated and encouraged. Eventually he was moved into the Steiner/Camphill system where he has thrived.
www.camphillscotland.org.uk/the-camphill-movement/like
Incidentally when my df told her father that the child had Downs Syndrome, he told her it must be the result of some wickedness she had committed.

Grammaretto what an appalling thing to say to the father of that child.
I entirely agree re Camphill. It's a wonderful place. I always thought that if, by any chance, I had child with a Learning Disability I'd fight for the local authority to admit them there.

When I think back 70 years to my primary schooldays, I remember the two or three boys who invariably sat at the bottom of the class. Two of them almost certainly were dyslexic and always got everything wrong. Unenlightened teachers sometimes used the belt to try to enforce learning. Another may well have had ADHD as he was always in trouble. I sometimes wonder how life has treated these misfits. I hope that, released from school, they survived in the wider world.

I lived in a working class school catchment area and apart from one boy labelled “fidget Fraser McIntyre” by the teacher because of his restless behaviour I was unaware of any child with special needs.
I also believe that we all left primary school able to read, write and do simple arithmetic. We had to read out loud and give answers orally to mental arithmetic questions daily.
The brighter children went on to the local Academy or Secondary school and the less bright to Junior Secondary.
When you read Mumsnet you get the impression that there are huge numbers of children these days with special needs.
Like you OP I wonder why.

I have a GC who has high functioning autism, they are in mainstream school, the only problems they encounter are fellow pupils who bully and teachers who have no idea of them being on the spectrum (appalling in school communication) DiL has laminated several information sheets for GC to carry in school bag to show teachers when they are unable to explain how they are feeling/reacting in certain circumstances.

This seems to be working at the moment and the Head Teacher is finally being supportive of the info-sheets (it is a very large senior school which is very much results driven)

I think “special needs” is very over used. My son is high functioning autistic with ADHD but was never “special needs”. He was different from the other children for sure.
I feel that so many children diagnosed as “special needs” may well have other much simpler problems.

When I was a child we were aware that there were special schools for those with 'learning disabilites', though the derogatory word 'backward' was sometimes heard then - a neighbour's child went to one. We also had A, B and R classes at junior school. The R class went on to the bottom stream at the Secondary Modern where apparently they were given the same lessons every year, with no attempt to improve these children.
When my children were at school, there was a local school for children with 'behavioural difficulties'. I think a lot of these children had ADHD or autism but I had not heard those terms back then.
I have spoken to older teachers who said that years ago they could tell the difference between a child who was boisterous (and often labelled naughty) and one who would nowadays be diagnosed with ADHD or autism but there was no help for them back then.

Rosalyn69

I think “special needs” is very over used. My son is high functioning autistic with ADHD but was never “special needs”. He was different from the other children for sure.
I feel that so many children diagnosed as “special needs” may well have other much simpler problems.

My AC has high functioning autism and definitely has special needs. He encountered huge problems at school as people didn't understand his thought processes; he was expected to conform just 'because', he is actually intelligent and thoughtful with a wide knowledge of various subjects, but some teachers just didn't want to acknowledge that he was different. Special needs might just mean having some one-to-one help to keep on track; it doesn't imply that the child is intellectually less able. (It used to be called sub-normal but is NOT now)

nanna8

No one was diagnosed with autism, ADHD etc when I was at school. The only person I remember who was special needs was a deaf boy who coped quite well in the classroom without an aide , just a small amount of extra attention. Has something in our environment caused all these children to appear? Is it connected with parenting, is it just that they had a lower profile and there was no diagnosis available ? Are we over diagnosing children and labelling them? I have worked with severely autistic young adults but they were very obviously in need of extra help. Not all who are diagnosed have visible issues, though.

If you have worked within specialist education or care, then I am amazed that you need to ask

Rosalyn69

I think “special needs” is very over used. My son is high functioning autistic with ADHD but was never “special needs”. He was different from the other children for sure.
I feel that so many children diagnosed as “special needs” may well have other much simpler problems.

what term would you like to have used instead?

Esspee

I lived in a working class school catchment area and apart from one boy labelled “fidget Fraser McIntyre” by the teacher because of his restless behaviour I was unaware of any child with special needs.
I also believe that we all left primary school able to read, write and do simple arithmetic. We had to read out loud and give answers orally to mental arithmetic questions daily.
The brighter children went on to the local Academy or Secondary school and the less bright to Junior Secondary.
When you read Mumsnet you get the impression that there are huge numbers of children these days with special needs.
Like you OP I wonder why.

you are saying that you believe that every child left your ?primary school able to read, write and do mental arithmetic....but belief is not fact. I am 67 and I can remember children in my class who had varying degrees of difficulty with various things. It was a good school by its lights and did its best to support those kids. I was one of them...I know now that I am dispraxic and mildly dyslexic. Luckily I am academically bright and because I was VERY good at other things and an early reader it didn't hold me back...but yes swimming classes and PT were a nightmare.

A friend of the family has a child with a rare genetic condition, this causes many issues but he's in mainstream primary school and has received endless support from them, he's actually thriving there.

As a child I was in a large primary school in a working class area. Bright children (the scholarship-11+ class) were in the A stream, the B stream was the secondary modern children, and the C stream those who would now be regarded as having special needs. any children who were more of a problem were sent off to a special school.
My first teaching job was in a small primary where the head teacher taught part time because numbers were low. I had what is now year 6. There was a boy with real learning difficulties, but because the school was small, and very much a family/community school we kept him. I expect the secondary school packed him off somewhere.
There were always as well a small number of children who "bunked off" and were returned by the EWO from time to time.
Just because a problem isn't named doesn't mean it isn't there. Sometimes things were spoken about in private but not openly discussed or labelled.

It's true that in the past, conditions such as autism went undiagnosed, and children with obvious behavioural issues were catered for in special schools. I'm not denying that autism exists and is diagnosed more frequently nowadays, but I do think there is a tendency towards labelling perfectly normal, but naughty, children as soon as they start being difficult.
Also true that many teachers ruled by fear in the past, but it did ensure peaceful classes and a lack of the low level disruption that seems to be the norm today.
My concern is that children today cannot just be 'naughty.' I dislike the namby pamby 'naughty step' and 'gentle hands darling' approach to behaviour that used to be effectively dealt with by smacking.
I was smacked as a child and I smacked my own children when they were naughty. They are now successful women in their forties, and neither of them has ever mentioned being smacked when they were young. They've probably forgotten.
Today, it seems that children have to be diagnosed with a problem when they are persistently naughty. The one that irritates me most is PDO (persistent demand avoidance). In other words, sheer naughtiness and refusal to obey instructions. It didn't exist when I was growing up.

so its a good idea to teach children that violence is ok?

I bet they havent forgotten. I remember the one time my mum smacked me.
I cant even begin to address the rest of your post. It's just too depressing.