Where were all the special needs students when we were at school?

well there you go, you aren't a monster and neither am I

nanna8

Ok Jane, I confess I missed it before and just thought you were being nasty. Pax. ??

I obviously missed out a 'not' in my sentence too I do not go out of my way to be nasty to be people. I do get upset by certain things as I am human being and my lived experience makes me aware of how I have been judged and families like me. I am quite happy to take responsibility for my failings, I'm not a narcissist

I do see what you are saying and I do agree that in the past a lot has been ignored or treated wrongly, by the way. I am not a monster!

nanna8, when I was at school, those with severe learning disabilities were in institutions or special schools, therefore 'invisible'.

Those with mild disabilities (now called learning differences) were just in the mainstream system, deemed awkward, odd or thick - and bullied mercilessly.

My primary school had kids from the local children's home, very obviously different with their tatty uniforms and hand knitted, felted/worn cardigans, poor things. Many seemed frail and nervous too. I witnessed the bullying first hand!

Ok Jane, I confess I missed it before and just thought you were being nasty. Pax. ??

JaneJudge

To be fair, I think her come back to me after I apologised was far more cutting.

Yes it was, but I expect she was hurt by you calling her ignorant and wanted to hurt you back. I think we should all be careful with use of language.

nanna8

I posed a question, didn’t mean that I believe that. It is ignorant to pre suppose that. Extremely rude and judgemental. For the record, I think very few of these children show signs of autism because of their parenting but you just go on judging people if it makes you happy and content. I am appalled.

If you missed it, it was this. After I posted

I'm sorry I should have said you sound ignorant, you were just asking a question. It's just it used such a lot by people who want to pretend these issues didn't happen before

Indeed and that divide extends to those who have the language and experience to fight for the right school place etc.

To be fair, I think her come back to me after I apologised was far more cutting.

JaneJudge You obviously have an issue with parents being blamed when they're not at fault, which is understandable. But surely every child with problems has to be assessed to see whether it's nature or nurture causing the problems.
However, my point was that you tore into the OP for mentioning parents when in fact there are cases where parents have caused the child's problems.

Galaxy

I have worked with children with additional needs for nearly 30 years. In my experience it is under diagnosis that has been the problem, i.e children being 'missed' and having to go through primary school and sometimes secondary school with no support.

Yes, and that in turn creates a divide between the children whose parents can pay for a private diagnosis and those that can't.

I have worked with children with additional needs for nearly 30 years. In my experience it is under diagnosis that has been the problem, i.e children being 'missed' and having to go through primary school and sometimes secondary school with no support.

Madgran77 I totally agree with what you say. Obviously others don’t,unfortunately.

JaneJudge, How I agree with you. My child was dismissed as 'naughty' and 'thick' before anyone thought that it might be high functioning autism. If I hadn't already had some knowledge of the condition we would have got absolutely nowhere. And what would have become of him then? BTW both his father, grandfather and other males in the family have ASD, it's clear to me that the cause is genetic, too many to be anything else.

GrannyRose15

Adhd, autism, dyslexia, and dyspraxia are nothing to do with parenting. They are congenital conditions. Parents who struggle generally are more likely to struggle with neurodiverse children than those who cope well. But these developmental conditions nearly always cause problems within the family. No-one who has not had to deal with a neurodiverse child within their own family can possibly understand the challenges involved.

You are right, people don't have a clue.

Chestnut, I am not denying those children exist at all but they do not make up the majority at 'even' a special school. You still get asked at almost every appointment if you smoke, drank or took drugs. If you are young, you get judged for being inexperienced, if you are old, well that may be it. It is some thing all parents who have a child with special needs has to go through. The judgements about lifestyle and home structure gets called into play a lot too. These parents are public property and it never stops. Some of the families I have worked with have had child protection involved before the children with disabilities team because people are so chronically judgemental.

GrannyRose15 Thank you, I suppose I come under the heading 'neurally diverse.I have dyspraxia and I am probably ADHD, thankfully at the mild end for both.

I had very good, loving and functional parents, but even good, loving functional parents cannot stop your balance being so bad you have difficulty riding a bike, or are constantly in trouble at school because your handwriting is so poor.

The one thing I would say, is that many neurallydiverse children do benefit from a structured home environment. My father was in the army, and I suspect had his own problems, he was not a disciplinarian in anyway but, life was quite structured over getting up, going to bed. clear rules about behaviour in all circumstances and I do think the security that gave me was beneficial and that some of the more unstructured freedom of much modern child rearing is not helpful for some children, not just the neurally diverse.

nanna8 I agree that children brought up with abuse, drunkeness or mental illness may well show similar yraits to children born with specific conditions.

I think it is impossible to generalise though. For some children it may be "nature" (congenital) , for some children it may "nurture" ( or rather tge lack of it!).

The important thing is that children get what they personally need as individuals. I think we would probably all aim for that, hopefully

The problem is misdiagnosis . There is a lot of it about. I can’t be bothered arguing with the nasties about it but I have experienced it personally and I know that it was more a parental issue than anything wrong with certain children. If you are brought up with abuse, drunkenness and perhaps a mentally ill parent then you might well display similar symptoms to an ADH child. Some have obviously lived in a very sheltered world is all I can say. Thanks you for your lovely comment amber. I really appreciate it.

Adhd, autism, dyslexia, and dyspraxia are nothing to do with parenting. They are congenital conditions. Parents who struggle generally are more likely to struggle with neurodiverse children than those who cope well. But these developmental conditions nearly always cause problems within the family. No-one who has not had to deal with a neurodiverse child within their own family can possibly understand the challenges involved.

Hippocrates, born circa 460 BC, identified ADHD. He noted that these children, mainly boys, were not able to concentrate for any length of time. He recommended lots of ex cerise and eating plenty of fish.

JaneJudge

^The outrage at the OP asking whether parents might be responsible was uncalled for^

was it Cheshunt? have you got a child, grandchild with a disability or additional need? or do you work with people with disabilities?

Have you faced everyday prejudice and discrimination because of that?

I have had an absolute gutful of professionals and people blaming parents of children with disabilities for their children's problems

I suggest you read my post again. I was referring to children who have been damaged by their parents lifestyle or mental condition. They may display all manner of behavioural problems. You can't say those children don't exist. You seem to have taken the wrong end of the stick here.

So sorry growstuff, obviously my experience from teaching in current and previous schools, watching SEND provision improve steadily since before 2000 and being a governor in two, and having 2DGC who have SEND, obviously can’t contradict a report from Ofsted which covers a wider area.
Which is why I suggested that Gagajo reported any deficiency of SEND provision to the governing body of a school or the LEA, or even, now you mention it, to Ofsted. Just complaining on here won’t achieve much.
I’m glad you reminded me to suggest that.
** Just to clarify, my teaching experience only covers 4-11 years. My KS3 knowledge is only via what my DGC have received.

EllanVannin what you describe is NOT ADHD.

I haven't read the whole thread and have much to say on it but will keep to 2
Around the '70s a specialist doctor told us that a 90 yr old had died , still in the sole care of their 70 year old mentally
disabled child.
The other - following that placing mothers and unplanned babies in institutations for the 'mentally lacking'

AcornFairy

Is there really the need for such vitriol JaneJudge? The way I see it is that, as is so often the case in life, by asking questions we learn. Please teach us kindly.

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