Where were all the special needs students when we were at school?

My father and brother were SEN. Both severely dyslexic. It runs in our family and quite a few family members are.

They were called thick, stupid, dunce etc.

Just as well we do recognise it now. Although with all the financial cuts to education, children still get no help. At least they aren't abused for their SEN anymore tho.

CafeAuLait I didn't say children were never smacked I said I never did it and it was regarded as a bit old fashioned. I know one of the nuns in a local Catholic school used a ruler on children well into the 1980s. But nuns are a law to themselves.

Loislovesstewie

I am 65; I was never, ever smacked by my parents. Was I naughty? Of course, I was, I was a child, but my parents told me what was acceptable behaviour. My dear dad would say 'Oh no Lois' and I knew it was wrong. I was so fond of him I didn't want to upset him. So, I learnt through example and explanation, not violence. I was shocked when a teacher smacked me at school, she was only doing it out of frustration; she should not have been a teacher.
Not all parents smacked children, even then.

I'm close in age to you Loislovesstewie and my parents never raised a hand to me, in fact I can barely recall my lovely dad even raising his voice to me...
I was smacked on one occasion by a teacher for bumping into her table ( a complete accident!) and she left a huge mark on my legs, when I got home I showed my dad and he immediately went to the school, which was pretty rare at that time.
She then appeared to delight in making my life a complete misery but never raised a hand to me again.

When I started teaching in 1963, the strap (tawse) was still in general use in Scottish schools. The deputy head was reputed to have a strong arm. I would never have used the strap though certain trouble makers did their best to provoke me. That first Christmas, they gave me a well wrapped package, containing...a tawse! I think it had belonged to one of the parents. I still refused to use the thing. Discipline should never be dependent on the fear of corporal punishment.
Apropos my previous post, the lads who sat at the bottom of my primary school class would eventually have gone on to National Service. I wonder what effect that would have had on these so-called 'backward' kids.

Corporal punishment was outlawed in UK state schools in 1986, but prior to that was only administered by senior teachers and had to be logged.

I doubt that any of the “discipline” that went on day in, day out in my small village school, doled out by the three female teachers, was logged. We were slapped, hauled about by our ears, hit on the hand with rulers, had board rubbers thrown at us. I wasn’t one of the prime targets, but was still punished like this for “not paying attention”, whispering in class, not eating all my school dinner, for goodness sake!

I had good parents who never smacked, nor did most of my friends’ parents, and it amazes me now that when we went home with tales of the little boy who was so scared he wet himself, etc, the attitude was “well, he must have done something wrong”. Well yes, he couldn’t recite his four times table, and never would be able to as long as those horrors were in charge.

When I went to a grammar school where the worst punishment was 100 lines or detention, I thought I’d died and gone to heaven.

When I'm out and about, it amazes me how many parents shout at and drag their children and threaten them. More often than not, the children don't respond and the parents just get more frustrated and angry. I suspect it's the same with frequent smacking.
I agree with this, and I think parents who behave in this way were probably badly brought up themselves and have very little idea of child upbringing. I don't advocate frequent smacking at all, just very clear boundaries, with smacking used occasionally after a couple of warnings.

So sorry to hear that, nanna8.

Slaps = physical abuse.
Just because they don't leave marks, it doesn't mean it is not violence

I had chalk thrown at me when I was gaping through the classroom window. I had an urge to throw it back
Boys were over the desk and belted with a galosher !

I think many of us were brought up with smacking . I thought it was wicked and never did it to any of my children however naughty they were. I was beaten as a child and I would never, ever wish that on any child. It is a very fine line between a slap and a beating and abuse. I thought it was normal to have bruises all over your legs when I was young.

Did being physically punished have any effect? I don't know because it's not something I've really experienced. I remember one pupil being caned for being extremely rude to me, but it made no difference to his behaviour and he was expelled. Goodness knows what happened to him. I suspect he was immune to physical punishment and it meant nothing. It must be devastating to a child with special needs - in fact, all children, who still regard their parents as role models.

When I'm out and about, it amazes me how many parents shout at and drag their children and threaten them. More often than not, the children don't respond and the parents just get more frustrated and angry. I suspect it's the same with frequent smacking. It's far more effective to try to remain calm and make very harsh words count.

Antonia
I hope teaching standards have been updated - children deserve better than being ruled with fear

I started teaching over 50years ago and I have never ever smacked a child. Even when I started it was regarded as a bit old fashioned and unnecessary
You might be surprised to know that I am a retired teacher. It's not as if I have no experience with children.

trisher

Antonia

Smacking is very much violence and not discipline. Totally unacceptable
Yes, as I said, in today's society. Go back forty years and it was very much accepted. Values change. Children have been physically disciplined for as long as children have existed. So what's so special about today's society that makes people think ' we know better.' The behaviour of many of today's children certainly doesn't bear that out.

I started teaching over 50years ago and I have never ever smacked a child. Even when I started it was regarded as a bit old fashioned and unnecessary. I have encountered children who were very difficult but I don't think smacking would have done any of them any good, particularly as some of them had homes where the level of violence far exceeded anything I could possibly administer. It always amuses me that ppeople who have never dealt with children (apart from their own) think they could sort them all out by simply whacking them.

I'm not even 50 years old and I remember teachers smacking kids with rulers, straps, belts, throwing chalk at kids, a duster once or twice, making them stand with their nose in a circle they had drawn on the board.

Yes it's a little bit like me popping on to a thread about plumbing and offering my advice.

Antonia

*Smacking is very much violence and not discipline. Totally unacceptable*
Yes, as I said, in today's society. Go back forty years and it was very much accepted. Values change. Children have been physically disciplined for as long as children have existed. So what's so special about today's society that makes people think ' we know better.' The behaviour of many of today's children certainly doesn't bear that out.

I started teaching over 50years ago and I have never ever smacked a child. Even when I started it was regarded as a bit old fashioned and unnecessary. I have encountered children who were very difficult but I don't think smacking would have done any of them any good, particularly as some of them had homes where the level of violence far exceeded anything I could possibly administer. It always amuses me that ppeople who have never dealt with children (apart from their own) think they could sort them all out by simply whacking them.

One of our foster kids was said to be ‘autistic’ but he was fine after a while. He had been traumatised and abused by his parents. Certainly not autistic, just scared. You can deny this til the cows come home but it does happen, sadly.

If you're Average you're fine, but if you fall off - or out of that conceived ideal ...

I am 65; I was never, ever smacked by my parents. Was I naughty? Of course, I was, I was a child, but my parents told me what was acceptable behaviour. My dear dad would say 'Oh no Lois' and I knew it was wrong. I was so fond of him I didn't want to upset him. So, I learnt through example and explanation, not violence. I was shocked when a teacher smacked me at school, she was only doing it out of frustration; she should not have been a teacher.
Not all parents smacked children, even then.

Smacking is very much violence and not discipline. Totally unacceptable
Yes, as I said, in today's society. Go back forty years and it was very much accepted. Values change. Children have been physically disciplined for as long as children have existed. So what's so special about today's society that makes people think ' we know better.' The behaviour of many of today's children certainly doesn't bear that out.

MayBee70 you’re right.

EllanVannin It really is more complicated than some children being born to be clever.

I’m always amazed at how many high achievers hated school and learning and how many are dyslexic. So much of education is based on the ability to read and read quickly.

Antonia

"so its a good idea to teach children that violence is ok?
I don't count smacking as 'violence.' Just discipline. I'm not advocating beating children. You only have to compare the behaviour of many children today, with that of the past, to see the difference. It's undisputable that behaviour has deteriorated in recent times, and in my opinion, a lack of proper discipline is a major factor. I didn't expect many people to agree with me though, as it's such an unfashionable view in today's society"

Smacking is very much violence and not discipline. Totally unacceptable.

The parents of today are the children of yesterday- how they were raised determines how they parent nkw

What went wrong in that perfect golden age of manners that created changes in future generations?
If those manners were perfect and the system worked so well, why is it not followed today?

Some kids are born to be clever, some are not. I wasn't a bright spark and did lessons at my own pace as I was more of a day-dreamer who'd rather watch what went on in the farmers field through the school window than join in with the subject in hand.

What I was listening to always seemed to penetrate though even though my concentration span was hit and miss as my exam paper results were always in the first bunch. I knew I could do better which was always in my school reports but by some quirk of nature, never had the desire to.

Children now are put under far too much pressure at school which is creating an inner fear in children---to do well. All children are different when it comes to learning, some being slower than others, but this doesn't always mean that there's anything amiss with the children.

It's down to the teachers to seek out the ones who fall behind in their work and not leave them to struggle trying to keep up. Nurturing classes are now in many mainstream schools for these children, thankfully, rather than them being " branded " as duffers as once was.

Frustration in a child can give out signals when a child isn't coping at school and this can be mistaken for ADHD which I think is happening, or if a child doesn't want to go to school and displays a meltdown. Best thing is to sit down with the child and ask what it is that's troubling them. Nine times out of ten it's because they can't either understand what the lesson's about and is scared to ask or they can't keep up.

Children's brains and their way of thinking or trying to work things out are very complex, made all the worse either if parents are too busy to bother or the background is sketchy. Either way it'll affect the child's learning ability.

Life itself today is high-speed and not leisurely as it was in the 40's/ 50's so it's not surprising that little notice can be given individually to a child. How has it got to this stage ? Why ?

Our own Ruby-Lou has been in a private Therapeutic Residential Home for over a year now after having wreaked havoc in the home and among her siblings before we eventually got help after years of psychiatric appointments etc., then my GD was blamed for being a " bad mother " and had all her children removed. She was going through looking after a very sick partner at the time up until his death, trying to reason with a child who was out of control, then because she had a breakdown, that was that and still is.

Nobody has time to listen any more

Nanna8
"I posed a question, didn’t mean that I believe that. It is ignorant to pre suppose that. Extremely rude and judgemental. For the record, I think very few of these children show signs of autism because of their parenting but you just go on judging people if it makes you happy and content. I am appalled"
You say you were judged but then you drop the gem of autism due to parenting.
Just priceless.
No, that is not how autism works.at.all