Where were all the special needs students when we were at school?

nanna8 I agree that children brought up with abuse, drunkeness or mental illness may well show similar yraits to children born with specific conditions.

I think it is impossible to generalise though. For some children it may be "nature" (congenital) , for some children it may "nurture" ( or rather tge lack of it!).

The important thing is that children get what they personally need as individuals. I think we would probably all aim for that, hopefully

GrannyRose15 Thank you, I suppose I come under the heading 'neurally diverse.I have dyspraxia and I am probably ADHD, thankfully at the mild end for both.

I had very good, loving and functional parents, but even good, loving functional parents cannot stop your balance being so bad you have difficulty riding a bike, or are constantly in trouble at school because your handwriting is so poor.

The one thing I would say, is that many neurallydiverse children do benefit from a structured home environment. My father was in the army, and I suspect had his own problems, he was not a disciplinarian in anyway but, life was quite structured over getting up, going to bed. clear rules about behaviour in all circumstances and I do think the security that gave me was beneficial and that some of the more unstructured freedom of much modern child rearing is not helpful for some children, not just the neurally diverse.

GrannyRose15

Adhd, autism, dyslexia, and dyspraxia are nothing to do with parenting. They are congenital conditions. Parents who struggle generally are more likely to struggle with neurodiverse children than those who cope well. But these developmental conditions nearly always cause problems within the family. No-one who has not had to deal with a neurodiverse child within their own family can possibly understand the challenges involved.

You are right, people don't have a clue.

Chestnut, I am not denying those children exist at all but they do not make up the majority at 'even' a special school. You still get asked at almost every appointment if you smoke, drank or took drugs. If you are young, you get judged for being inexperienced, if you are old, well that may be it. It is some thing all parents who have a child with special needs has to go through. The judgements about lifestyle and home structure gets called into play a lot too. These parents are public property and it never stops. Some of the families I have worked with have had child protection involved before the children with disabilities team because people are so chronically judgemental.

JaneJudge, How I agree with you. My child was dismissed as 'naughty' and 'thick' before anyone thought that it might be high functioning autism. If I hadn't already had some knowledge of the condition we would have got absolutely nowhere. And what would have become of him then? BTW both his father, grandfather and other males in the family have ASD, it's clear to me that the cause is genetic, too many to be anything else.

Madgran77 I totally agree with what you say. Obviously others don’t,unfortunately.

I have worked with children with additional needs for nearly 30 years. In my experience it is under diagnosis that has been the problem, i.e children being 'missed' and having to go through primary school and sometimes secondary school with no support.

Galaxy

I have worked with children with additional needs for nearly 30 years. In my experience it is under diagnosis that has been the problem, i.e children being 'missed' and having to go through primary school and sometimes secondary school with no support.

Yes, and that in turn creates a divide between the children whose parents can pay for a private diagnosis and those that can't.

JaneJudge You obviously have an issue with parents being blamed when they're not at fault, which is understandable. But surely every child with problems has to be assessed to see whether it's nature or nurture causing the problems.
However, my point was that you tore into the OP for mentioning parents when in fact there are cases where parents have caused the child's problems.

To be fair, I think her come back to me after I apologised was far more cutting.

Indeed and that divide extends to those who have the language and experience to fight for the right school place etc.

nanna8

I posed a question, didn’t mean that I believe that. It is ignorant to pre suppose that. Extremely rude and judgemental. For the record, I think very few of these children show signs of autism because of their parenting but you just go on judging people if it makes you happy and content. I am appalled.

If you missed it, it was this. After I posted

I'm sorry I should have said you sound ignorant, you were just asking a question. It's just it used such a lot by people who want to pretend these issues didn't happen before

JaneJudge

To be fair, I think her come back to me after I apologised was far more cutting.

Yes it was, but I expect she was hurt by you calling her ignorant and wanted to hurt you back. I think we should all be careful with use of language.

Ok Jane, I confess I missed it before and just thought you were being nasty. Pax. ??

nanna8, when I was at school, those with severe learning disabilities were in institutions or special schools, therefore 'invisible'.

Those with mild disabilities (now called learning differences) were just in the mainstream system, deemed awkward, odd or thick - and bullied mercilessly.

My primary school had kids from the local children's home, very obviously different with their tatty uniforms and hand knitted, felted/worn cardigans, poor things. Many seemed frail and nervous too. I witnessed the bullying first hand!

I do see what you are saying and I do agree that in the past a lot has been ignored or treated wrongly, by the way. I am not a monster!

nanna8

Ok Jane, I confess I missed it before and just thought you were being nasty. Pax. ??

I obviously missed out a 'not' in my sentence too I do not go out of my way to be nasty to be people. I do get upset by certain things as I am human being and my lived experience makes me aware of how I have been judged and families like me. I am quite happy to take responsibility for my failings, I'm not a narcissist

well there you go, you aren't a monster and neither am I

I can still remember a child in my class who had a stutter and I think looking back other speech and language difficulties, and the teacher mimicking the way she spoke. It's one of my clearest memories. There are very many issues at the moment in terms of lack of resources, staffing, wait for diagnosis etc but that child today would receive a referral for support, probably in the early years.

nanna8 ? JaneJudge ?

Madgran77 I totally agree with what you say. Obviously others don’t,unfortunately.

?

Growstuff primary 1961 - 1968, high school 1968 - 1973.

When my daughter was in primary school I was convinced she had ADHD but feared I would be labelled a rubbish parent if I tried to get her diagnosed (I heard mums in the playground talking about a family with SEN children) so we brushed it under the carpet. She was subsequently diagnosed with dyslexia at 14 and ADHD at 19 ?
Oh if I had my time again or was just starting out now, what a different experience of education my dearest daughter would have had. I live with that guilt still❤️

i was moved to a school at age 8 that my parent thought was better.
it was not.
aged 9, i was berated everyday for not copying from the board.
i could not see it well enough, nor decipher her germanic handwriting.
she said i had no excuse as she had put me in the front row.
due to some admin problems it was difficult to get glasses. the nhs had no record of me apparently, despite having been in their untender care from may to august earlier that year.
the same teacher mocked my skinny frame and laughed at the thought of seeing me in swim suit.
i determined she would not.
and as if providentially i got out of going, as another teacher assumed i was excused due to my previous sickness absence.
so i missed out on the chance of swimming. it was worth it.
now i did not have special needs, just quite ordinary ones.

I worked in Special Needs for a time in the Local Authority Education Department - it was around the time that many of the schools caring for children with learning difficulties were being closed down, as 'inclusion' was the new buzz word. Children with special needs were being put into mainstream schools. This was opposed by the department and parents. Some years later I worked in a senior school, and saw the results of this policy; children would have a one to one helper, and no doubt these ladies, without much in the way of training, did their very best to help, but many children sat through lessons with total incomprehension, moving from one classroom to another, and leaving school with none of the skills they might have learned from professionally trained teachers in a gentler environment.

65 years ago the “Modified” (sic) stream boys at my Scottish High School were doing “Rural Studies” ie gardening and the girls Domestic Science .
Nothing wrong with either subject I hasten to add, as many of the lads came from farms up the valleys outside the town and many of the girls would have worked in the woollen Mills before having families. But awareness of dyslexia or learning problems? Sadly no chance.
However, in defence of Scottish education, there were many (especially) men of my fathers’s generation who may have had little formal education beyond the age of 13/14 but were highly intelligent, well-read, enjoyed classical music and literature. Many also went on to have successful careers too, but I know this is not what we were talking about.