Children not ready to start school aged 4

They have kinder here at 4 and most start preps( primary school) around the age of 5 and a half or 6. They have quite a few 3 year old kinders which are now government subsidised. They seem to take things a lot more slowly than when I was at school and many don’t seem to learn to read until they about 8 or so. When I was at school most could read fluently by age 6 or 7 at the latest. They do have more fun I think.

Some countries start at 3. I think it is way too young

The US does not start at 7.
At 7yo, they are in 2nd grade.
Optional schooling is prek at 4 and all kids go to kinder at 5.

But shouldn't children be toilet trained by age of 4yrs and be able to put their coat and shoes on and take them off? Hold a pencil and listen? Those are basic skills.

The majority of children have those basic skills chestnut. The few who don’t, soon pick them up.
I’m much more concerned about formal education to much, too soon. Learn through play.

V3ra

www.nurseryworld.co.uk/News/article/ofsted-to-make-early-years-its-focus-over-next-five-years?

Ofsted are on the case...

Oh dear.

I have, for a long time, been in favour of free childcare from 1 - 3 years, pre-school from 4 - 7 both of which would make a huge difference to those from disadvantaged homes and to those who, while not exactly disadvantaged have both parents having to work.

Despite being summer babies, all my children were ready for school. Only one had been to nursery, and three children from there were in her class, so a very easy transition.
One read before school, I taught her at home with a reading scheme I bought in a local bookshop, one I kept home an extra term, mainly because he would have been barely four.
They were all completely toilet trained, and could hold a knife and fork.
I confess my sons prep school constantly complained he couldn’t do his shoe laces, but he just couldn’t seem to get the hang of it!
I read to them constantly, as much for my pleasure as theirs, and we played endless games.
Things seem very different with my grandchildren, even their parents see little benefit in them having good table manners.
I suppose times change, and we just have to go with the flow.

Listen for how long?
Sit for how long?

No, cellphones are not the evil reason of lack of parenthood.
Bad parents existed in all generations, using different devices as an excuse

I agree that basic skills should be learned at home.

I think there is an observable sex difference: at 4, girls are generally 'school ready' and too old to be pedalling round church halls on tricycles, boys are generally not. Then at puberty boys seem to have a learning as well as a physical growth spurt while girls on the whole do not.

Chestnut

The problem of children not being ready for school is increasing.
Children not ready to start school article

Quote:
On average, just 50 per cent of youngsters were equipped for reception in September.
One in four teachers said more than half didn't know how to listen or respond to simple instructions and struggled to play with others.
A third cited similarly high numbers having difficulties holding a pencil.
Other children lacked basic number and language skills, couldn't eat independently and were not toilet trained.

Back in the late 60's when I was doing A levels, our lovely English Lit teacher complained to us one September that the new intake of 11 year olds were exhausting. She said it took her the entire first term to teach them to sit down in their own seat, be quiet, listen to what she was telling them to do and then do it. This was a very good direct grant grammar school.
I do agree that at least in part it seems to be due to the increase in expectations rather than poor parenting.

Chestnut

The problem of children not being ready for school is increasing.
Children not ready to start school article

Quote:
On average, just 50 per cent of youngsters were equipped for reception in September.
One in four teachers said more than half didn't know how to listen or respond to simple instructions and struggled to play with others.
A third cited similarly high numbers having difficulties holding a pencil.
Other children lacked basic number and language skills, couldn't eat independently and were not toilet trained.

My friend, who taught Early Years always said that parents would say "He's ready for school" (or she).
She said what the parent meant was that they were a handful, always tearing around, never listening and generally restless and difficult to control.

That was the opposite of what "Ready for school" meant, said my friend.

Iam64

The majority of children have those basic skills chestnut. The few who don’t, soon pick them up.
I’m much more concerned about formal education to much, too soon. Learn through play.

Reception is more play-based, isn't it?
It seemed to be at the DGC's school.

Yes reception is more play based. I believe we start to early with formal in year1, especially with homework

Iam64

Yes reception is more play based. I believe we start to early with formal in year1, especially with homework

There is some research (I can post a link but it's a long paper) that shows that over 80% or schools start Literacy and numeracy hours in the child's third term in reception. It's far too early for most.

There shouldn't be homework at primary level, imo although perhaps a little in Y6.

MaizieD

Goodness, teachers have been saying this for years.

It's such a shame that the tories closed down Sure Start.

Absolutely. I so agree. But if you think the government will listen - think on .......

{hmm] Can't help thinking that may be mobile phones and social media generally, could be a factor, especially as far as conversational skills are concerned, it's really noticeable how hard it is for children to get their parents attention when those parents are otherwise engaged. It's very evident when out and about. This is also an observation of late, I think older junior school aged kids are somewhat resigned to that and don't even try to chat to parents in some situations, just switched off!

I remember it seemed to take a month of Sundays to get my children (boys) toilet trained but we were certainly there by 3, their female counterparts achieving that much earlier. I don't know of any of their contemporaries who weren't fully toilet trained by the time they started in reception, or even the school nursery at 3 and halfish, accidents at times, but no child was in nappies.

Iam64

The majority of children have those basic skills chestnut. The few who don’t, soon pick them up.
I’m much more concerned about formal education to much, too soon. Learn through play.

Yes indeed - learn through play - or even just play for its own sake!!

Forcing children to learn stuff before they are ready helps no-one at all. For those who struggle with it, it sets up an expectation to fail and an awareness that they are "failures" in this rigid system.

We need to value play for its own sake - we as adults do work - play is children's work.

My eldest in 39 and when they went to nursery they had to be out of nappies. Both my children were and so were all my friend's children. Now it is not considered 'inclusive' to barr any child still in nappies. Parents allowed to be lax about so many things nowadays. You reap what you sow.

It's not inclusive. The children I work with may never be out of nappies they are entitled to early years in the same way as any other child. I know no early years worker who would think otherwise.

You are missing the point entirely Galaxy.

Love0c, what an unpleasant, judgemental post. ‘Parents allowed to be lax’.

The only ‘lax’ parents I know are the children on their own poor parenting experience

winterwhite:
"I agree that basic skills should be learned at home."

So back goes your head, into the sand. The DM feels it has to highlight it as that isn't happening for enough children. Now I know, and I expect we all know why they are doing that but you are walking straight into the trap they have laid.

If it isn't happening how can your: "I agree that basic skills should be learned at home" make it happen? We can make it better for those children - why would you chose not to?

The problem is that some really are ready for school at four, and some definitely are not. some are craving to learn, others only want to play.
When I was a child school had two intakes, and I went after Easter, I’m sure that would create logistical problems, but would surely benefit some of those little ones.

Surely the point is that -as I have said for years -that 4 is way too early for formal schooling. They should still be in a nursery setting or at home where they can access more outdoor activities and play and higher adult ratio to improve all their skills.
Then maybe children will actually enjoy school when they are older instead of tolerating it or disliking it.

No I am not loveoc, it's really not inclusive to ban any child in nappies, no matter what the reason.