Children not ready to start school aged 4

Loads of people who use private nurseries expect the staff/nursery to implement potty training etc. How is that different?

Chestnut

This problem may not be new but I'm sure it's getting worse. Some are only just turned 4yrs which is quite young. So maybe they should start school on their 5th birthday regardless of the time of year. The school should learn to integrate them during the school year as they turn 5yrs old.

Some on here will remember that we used to do that. Three term entries based on birthdate. September, January and Easter.
For a few years as a new teacher, I had a mixed Reception/Y1 class, with Y1 who had been in for 1 or 2 or 3 terms and Reception who started at different times of the year (as above). After Easter I had 38 altogether. Teaching was interesting and TAs hadn’t been invented!
Parents were not happy if their neighbour’s ‘autumn or spring born’ child could start before their own ‘summer born’ and would produce evidence that their little genius deserved to start earlier.
When schools are now paid for bottoms on seats, it’s hard to say, “Yes we'll keep a place till January for little Alex, much less keep a place for little Alexia till April,” especially if you are an over-subscribed school.
So basically, whilst I agree with the point you make Chestnut, I wouldn’t like to go back to how it was.
In addition, there is no guarantee that the children would be any more ready to listen do and learn if the home or pre-school provision wasn’t up to much.

The problem that state nurseries have, with increasing number of children aged 3-4 who are not toilet trained, is the fact that they may not have enough staff to cope with the physical needs of more children in nappies without special needs as well as trying to adhere to the curriculum.
More demands are being placed on the staff but they are not increasing the number of staff to cope with the extra work.

‘I completely agree the fault lies squarely with parents snd nurseries’

Nurseries offer excellent care. As Galaxy says, often nursery is offered to support parents who are struggling. Sure start and other family centres focussed on helping parents develop parenting skills.
Some shockingly smug comments here

I agree with the title. “ children are not ready to start school,at 4”- but not that anything has changed in parenting or preparation for school.As others have said , I think 4 is too young to begin formal education( especially for summer born children). The powers that be are forever comparing uk results unfavourably with other countries where children do not start
Literacy and numeracy in its formal sense until 6or 7.

Having one intake a year is not helping those who are summer-born.
One of DGD's friends is a year older than her all but a week but they are in the same school year.
She has a late August birthday, his is the beginning of September.

I don't know what the answer is because DS, also summer-born, only had one and a half terms in reception because there were two intakes, September and after February half-term but all then went into Y1 at the same time.

I think its Sweden where children are not even introduced to reading and writing before 7. They spend their time doing outdoor and indoor play.There is some evidence that practice and use of gross motor skills, such as climbing, balancing and riding a bike improves fine motor skills needed for things like writing and pencil holding. I do wonder if one of the issues is that young children do not get as much physical excercise as they once did ,so all of their muscle development including perhaps those needed for toilet training is delayed.

Sara1954

Pebbles
In an ideal world I’m certain this would benefit children enormously.
But sadly most parents have to work just to make ends meet, and then at the end of the day can’t wait to get the children into bed.
My three year old granddaughter is currently washing up, well actually making me lots of cups of hot chocolate. It’s very messy, but she’s singing away, and soaking wet, and having a lot of fun.
It’s my day off, I couldn’t face it at the end of a working day.

I agree that many people would not be able to make ends meet but why see school as the only answer. Other countries have pre-school and then school at about 7.

Esspee

My two were reading and writing stories plus happily adding and subtracting before the age of five but they had the advantage of attending a few hours of Montessori school a day from the age of two and a half and a full time mother plus a father heavily involved in their development.
We could have had a far more expensive home but that would have meant me going out to work leaving strangers responsible for bringing them up. I didn’t have children for strangers to bring up.

A lot of families have to have two salaries just to keep a basic roof over their heads Esspee.

You clearly were a great deal luckier than them. Should they not have access to a 'normal' life, just because the current economic situation is so much harder than it was 40/50 years ago?

Judge not...

I completely agree that the fault lies squarely at the feet of the parents and nurseries. Of course some have all kinds of things going on in their lives which give them little time to prepare their children and I wish they could get more support.
Of my 7 GC 6 were born in June or July and were quite able to cope at school. I realise my family is fortunate but even so a lot of effort went in to teaching them the necessary skills.

I am in my fifties, I only work part time, the three year olds are killing me

A day a week from 7.30 am to 6 pm looking after a delightful DGD was exhausting!
And I was younger then.

And a placement in early years is usually one of the very first steps in supporting those children where the parents are having difficulties parenting.

I do agree Callistemon, there are reasons we weren’t designs to give birth in our fifties and sixties

love0c

I firmly believe parents should be encouraged to 'parent'. While ever 'lax parents' yes I will use that phrase again, are able to expect and leave parenting to nursery, schools etc then I will always speak up. Children 'deserve' the very best from the day they ae born. Why would anyone discourage that? Clearly some on her would.

Head back in sand again. How do you make parents "parent" according to your rules if they can't or won't?

You are prepared to punish children - our future - for the sake of the most regressive of beliefs.

Callistemon
Agree completely.
Why at my age anyone would imagine they would have the patience or energy to deal with young children day in day out, must be mad.

It’s my day off, I couldn’t face it at the end of a working day.
That's why it's not a good idea to have a baby at the age of 60+ as some women have done!!

JaneJudge

Why shouldn't children at nursery be given continence support?

Of course those children who have special needs should have their needs met at nursery and they were even before the Act came in, but most children without special needs could be toilet trained by the age of 3+ or might soon learn with help.

Obviously, at a Special Needs Resource base, such as the one where my DD worked, all their needs will be catered for. There are not always SNRB available in all localities.

Children 'deserve' the very best from the day they are born. Why would anyone discourage that? Clearly some on her would.

Pebbles
In an ideal world I’m certain this would benefit children enormously.
But sadly most parents have to work just to make ends meet, and then at the end of the day can’t wait to get the children into bed.
My three year old granddaughter is currently washing up, well actually making me lots of cups of hot chocolate. It’s very messy, but she’s singing away, and soaking wet, and having a lot of fun.
It’s my day off, I couldn’t face it at the end of a working day.

My two were reading and writing stories plus happily adding and subtracting before the age of five but they had the advantage of attending a few hours of Montessori school a day from the age of two and a half and a full time mother plus a father heavily involved in their development.
We could have had a far more expensive home but that would have meant me going out to work leaving strangers responsible for bringing them up. I didn’t have children for strangers to bring up.

Many of the posters who disagree with you work or have professional knowledge of early years love0c. You aren’t the only one ‘speaking up for children’. You do seem to be doing so from the lofty moral high ground

Yes agree with others who have said that in the early years there needs to be a focus on play and social skills,

Of course this has been discussed before but those children who are born late August, I know some parents who have had late August children, one born on the 31st and his mother felt he just wasn't ready for school at 4. From what I remember when mine started it was staggered to a certain extent, summer born children like one of mine spent an extra term in the nursery before they entered reception. Nevertheless the September children have a distinct advantage.

Most childrens additional needs are identified within the school setting so yes that wasnt inclusive.

Why shouldn't children at nursery be given continence support?